SDG Electronics mega soldering system thread - New: L245 USB JBC

[thm_w]

Saw this article with a coin test and thermal calculations at the bottom: https://diyodemag.com/reviews/new_and_reviewed_hands-on_review_thermaltronics_tmt-9000s-2_soldering_station

For our coins, we know the mass is 5.2g and that the specific heat capacity of copper is 0.385J/g°C. We also know that the temperature our 60/40 leaded solder flows at is around 250°C.
Therefore, the thermal absorption is: Q = 5.2 x 0.385 x (250°C - 25°C) = 450J

We know the iron is capable of delivering 40W of heating power and the total energy required to heat the coin, thus, the equation to calculate Time becomes:
T = E / P = 450J / 40W = 11.25 seconds

2p coin is 7.12g = 620J = 15s for 40W, 8s for 80W, leaded solder, using their numbers.
Lead free should be a couple seconds longer.

[SteveyG]

MX-500P-11 arrived, well used but perfectly functional. Thermaltronics tips works perfectly with the mx-500 without the issues I see with the mx-5200. If it wasn't for the 80w of the mx-5200, I'd happily use the mx-500 as my main unit, not a fan of the longer boot and reset time of the mx-5200.

Also I don't see a big difference in thermal performance between the two unless I'm soldering to something like a aluminum PCB.

I have the newer MX-500 with the LCD that looks like the MX-5200 and for general soldering you can get by perfectly with the 40W RF power. However, I do notice if you use them both side by side, there is a slight delay before the full wetting stage of the solder joint with the MX-500. I now keep the Ultrafine handpiece on the MX-500 and the Advanced handpiece on the MX-5200. The other port is usually connected to the desolder gun but gets swapped for the tweezers sometimes since they do take a lot longer to heat up on the lower power station.

Recently I've gone back to using the GT120 after all these other stations and I'm actually really impressed with it. I initially didn't think much of it since I'd been using the MX-5200 almost exclusively, but after all these other systems I've realised just how good it is, probably better than every other system except the MX-5200. The downside to the GT120 is the lack of cartridge types and general availability of them.

[labjr]

I guess you're paying for performance with anything Metcal. I don't know if I'd spend that much for a soldering station that uses a power brick. And I don't care for the factory kludge.

[SteveyG]

I guess you're paying for performance with anything Metcal. I don't know if I'd spend that much for a soldering station that uses a power brick. And I don't care for the factory kludge.

Factory kludge has gone. I need to do an update as all of those versions were supposed to be recalled from distributors.

[TopQuark]

So I have been using my Metcal for a while, and since I don't have the time to do a proper comparison video between the Metcal and other stations I own, I thought I'd leave my thoughts here.

Just get the Metcal, it is well worth it. It just works (provided you use Metcal tips not the thermaltronics ones), it solders anything I throw at it, and it brings a smile to my face everytime I use it. The Metcal tip plating is just as good as the Hakko, which I consider to be the gold standard when it comes to plating durability, but obviously the thermal performance is miles ahead. Compared to the Goot, it has better thermal performance, especially when comparing the ultrafine tips. I can solder wick a 4-layer QFN center GND pad with the Metcal ultrafine tips, but the Goot ultrafine tips can't reflow 0402 pads if the pads has the slightest bit of copper pour on it. My DIY Weller RT station comes close to the Metcal when it comes to thermal performance, but the Weller tip plating is very fragile and blackens fast.

On the subject of tips, I have 10 Metcal tips for my standard handpiece, and I use the STTC-126 90% of the time. The tip to grip distance is second to none, I can comfortably work under the microscope with it. I can do anything from reworking 0402 to soldering SMA connectors to ground planes with that tip, I almost regret buying the other tips. The SMTC-1183 is amazing for drag soldering fine pitch QFP, it makes the job so unbelievably easy. I also like the STTC-117 for soldering solid brass vacuum fittings together, it is the tip I use when sh*t hits the fan.

Overall I can't praise the Metcal enough, and just wish I had gotten it years sooner, without going through the expense of buying the other stations I own.

[mikeselectricstuff]

It just works (provided you use Metcal tips not the thermaltronics ones),

Why? I actually find thermaltronics tips better, in terms of lifetime and shape detail

[TopQuark]

I am noticing some funky behavior with my particular setup. The tip I am using for the copper clad board test is a M7CH250 from thermaltronics. The tip does heat up to ~378C and draws ~70 w peak (front panel power meter) doing so. However, after the initial heating phase, the tip only draws ~20w from the station no matter how high the thermal load is and the tip gets stuck. I observed similar behavior with the M7CH024 tip as well.

The station switched to simultaneous dual output seems not to suffer from the same issue, but is a bit of a pain as power cycling is required for tip change in this mode. In any case, I have some Metcal tips from Mouser coming today which will hopefully solve this issue.

This, for whatever reason all my Thermaltronics tips don't play well with my MX-5200, the tips just wouldn't stay hot after the initial heating phase. The Thermaltronics tips do work well with a second hand MX-500 I bought though.

[SteveyG]

Added a video on my thoughts about the JBC AM120 and Metcal MX-PTZ Desoldering Tweezers

[thm_w]

Added a video on my thoughts about the JBC AM120 and Metcal MX-PTZ Desoldering Tweezers

Looks like the AM120 are built basically identically to the Hakko tweezers, with the same offset adjustment mechanism. As you said making the adjustment redundant. Almost as if the same company designed them, quite odd. However the stand looks a lot nicer: https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx1003.html
Had to modify them with a shim to make them usable for me: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/hakko-rf-soldering-tweezers-fx-1003-$240/

The eccentric design on the Metcal just seems smarter, properly rigid. But metcal haven't released a small size tweezer, I'm sure they could come up with a decent one.

[SteveyG]

Added the first extremely sketchy solder station so far.

[Maximus Panin]

Added the new MiniWare TS101

Now - Add PD3.1 protocol support 90W for 3 seconds 

TS101 is at home, waiting for a 24v 3A power supply, and here is the news.  It's incredible! 
What to do now, buy GaN ? 
How long did tips last in this mode ? 

While we are waiting for the power supply, I put on a silicone holder from the Lukey 702 station ))

[SteveyG]

Added the L245 USB-C JBC C245 Compatible Portable Iron

[labjr]

Thanks for the reviews. I hope you'll keep doing them.

[Bud]

Seems an overcomplicated device... I would not be willing to spend much of my time fiddling with tiny buttons and settings.

[thm_w]

They dropped the price of the GT90 to $250, probably was not selling that well: https://store.metcal.com/en-us/shop/soldering-desoldering/soldering-desoldering-systems/gt-series/GT90-HP-T4
No tips included, but it does include the blank heater cartridge.

old thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/metcal-gt120-soldering-system-with-heater-cartridge/25/

[kkontak]

Added the L245 USB-C JBC C245 Compatible Portable Iron

Got one of these L245 USB irons.

Surprisingly good. Here is my review.
Works with fake chinese tips and original JBC tips just fine, up to my beast original C245-914 (10mm flat chisel)

Programmable working tip temperature, sleep temperature and delay(1min steps), off delay time(1min steps).
5 preset temperature settings(CH) and one (CH=off) user programmable on the fly from 0°C upwards with 10oC steps.

Tested with:
a. 5V/1-3A various USB mobile chargers (not working, shows menu but reboots when enabled)
b. 33W USB mobile charger (not working, shows menu but reboots when enabled)
c. 12V/2A DC linear PSU (works but marginally, very slow)
d. 10V/6A simple full brigde rectified PSU with transformer and a 2.200uF cap (works good, just not as fast as original JBC, still way better than any other old style soldering stations)
e. Makita battery 18V/5Ah (20V when fully charged, iron works very good, fast heating, from 20-380 in 10sec)

It detects movement, so when enabled (by the buttons you select CH preset), it starts heating and when it stays still for 1min or whetever delay set, it goes to sleep mode, which is a preset (but programmable) temperature of 200oC default i think. During the sleep mode, if you lift it, it heats up again.
If during sleep mode you don't move it for another set delay, it disables itself and goes to room temperature. From that mode it can escape only by pressing a button key, while on original JBC stations it only requires to lift the iron from the stand and it starts heating again.
This button activity, if frequent, may fatique the buttons and some of them fail in time. My tip is to extend the delays, to reduce the need to press the buttons. There is always the option to replace them...

The body is anodised aluminium tube, with some kind of black plastic cap near the tip, but white (teflon i think) tip insert.
The nose does not fit the original JBC stands, its a bit thicker.
Original T245 nose is DIA 11.77mm and the plastic nose of L245 is 12.04mm.
The grip is OK, some kind of elastic tube.

I suppose, the DC drive (and not AC) will corrode the tips in time, but it's not meant for heavy use anyway.

Another user (YulyPH) kindly uploaded some photos of the PCB internals:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4658113/#msg4658113

[isabido]

Hi @SteveyG,

I currently have a Ksger T12, and I want to upgrade since they don't seem like good transfer tips to me. The truth is that I am somewhat tired of investing in low-quality Chinese products, the last one I have been trying to purchase is the AXIUN T3B to use with original tips. But I have my doubts!

They have offered me a second-hand METCAL SP-200 for €60 in very good condition. I think that although old it is a good machine with cartridges up to 0.5mm. Do you think this is a good change or would something like the JBC BT-2BWA with a T210 handle be preferable? My use will be for the repair of PC boards or similar.

I would also be delighted to receive your opinions.

[thm_w]

SP200 for $60 if it has any tips seems like a good price. T210 is supposedly 20W and SP200 is 35W so they might be comparable.

New thermaltronics video:

[isabido]

Thanks for the response, it does indeed include a tip. I wanted to try a slightly different soldering station, I never tried induction. Although perhaps this SP200 is not comparable with the new metcal stations that work at much higher frequencies.

The advantage of the T210 is a wide variety of tips up to 0.2mm, apart from a shorter distance from the handle to the tip which is somewhat more precise. It is a temptation but falling again into the Chinese product of dubious quality like the Axiun T3B makes me lazy!!

[thm_w]

SP200 is not comparable with the top end stations no. There is a SDG PS900 metcal review but that is slightly higher wattage, 60W

If you want to play around with T210 you can get a KSGER handle for $25 and see how you like it. Run it from 12V.

[labjr]

If you're only soldering small stuff SP200 is fine. IMO, if you want to get into Metcal, go with with a 13.56 MHz system. I've used mine to solder grounds on a steel chassis of guitar amps using a 5mm chisel tip. There are used MX-500P-11 RF power units everywhere.

[isabido]

Thanks for the recommendation, what I am going to solder is all SMD and other components that a PCB of a motherboard may have.

Regarding finding second-hand Metcal opportunities, here in Europe (Spain) it is not so simple, there are very few options.

[isabido]

SP200 is not comparable with the top end stations no. There is a SDG PS900 metcal review but that is slightly higher wattage, 60W

If you want to play around with T210 you can get a KSGER handle for $25 and see how you like it. Run it from 12V.

Do you think a PS900 is a much better option than an SP200? They should be very very similar, right? same frequency and everything.

On the other hand, in that format I had seen another C210, do you think it is better than the Ksger that you recommended?

https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005929126518.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.b62038daFbF5gJ&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2vnm

[thm_w]

Do you think a PS900 is a much better option than an SP200? They should be very very similar, right? same frequency and everything.

On the other hand, in that format I had seen another C210, do you think it is better than the Ksger that you recommended?

Similar, but I can't say for sure, never used the SP200 or PS900.

That Sequre has poor ergonomics IMO. The ksger has a proper grip with foam cover.