EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Computers => Programming => Topic started by: emece67 on September 27, 2019, 09:48:43 am
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Others, in no order:
- Ada/SPARK
- xC
- design patterns, which are arguably more important and useful than any specific language
- various scrotty little domain specific languages (DSLs) that should never have existed (a library in a standard language would have been more appropriate)
The "use nowadays" clause is problematic:
- at any one time only a small subset of languages is being used on a project
- old projects/languges have to be re-visited, for maintenance and enhancement, and to reuse concepts in new projects
- concepts from languages used a while ago are "stolen" and re-implemented in more modern languages
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Other not listed:
VB.NET
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Other not listed:
VB.NET
VB6 has a long history of being used in random embedded tasks that happen to use windows, but VB.NET? In EE?
It's of course C/ASM that are the big two because they're cheap and work well. FORTRAN had a lot of use in a lot of strange places, and some people for some strange reason decided Java was awesome enough to build into almost anything backbone. Forth gets used a good little bit, shell scripting is always useful, and for some reason I can never understand, people use Python.
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I think this can be all summed up by, someone, somewhere used each one of these for something remotely related to EE at some point. If you want usage statistics, forums are basically anecdote city.
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I think this can be all summed up by, someone, somewhere used each one of these for something remotely related to EE at some point. If you want usage statistics, forums are basically anecdote city.
Many polls on this subject are heavily biassed because only a self-selected subset of people respond.
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I think this can be all summed up by, someone, somewhere used each one of these for something remotely related to EE at some point. If you want usage statistics, forums are basically anecdote city.
Many polls on this subject are heavily biassed because only a self-selected subset of people respond.
Exactly! That and playing games with statistics like: "My new language is the fastest growing language in use today!" Sure, last year it had 1 user, now it has 2. That's a 100% increase. Meanwhile a language like C with millions of users doesn't seem to have much of a growth rate.
Maybe the poll should cover those languages used in the last month or, at most, year. In either case, mine would be much less than 8. MATLAB, C and Fortran. Pretty short list.
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Maybe people should look at the body of software that /has/ been written (not is being written), and compare the languages actually being used, added with the product's release and active development status to get a more accurate outlook on what languages are/were popular.
I think C/C++ will end up running our world for a very long time to come. At least as a Linux user, almost everything is written in those two language, with other options being rather sparse in old and new software.
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You need "BASIC (any)" on the list.I suspect that there's a scary amount of pbasic (Parallax BASIC stamp, PICAxe) and even 8051 BASIC still in use in embedded things.
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I think C/C++ will end up running our world for a very long time to come.
I think so too. Now define what you mean by "running our world". There's going to be software in an exponentially increasing number of devices and applications, so other languages are of course bound to have a sizeable "market share". Just because there is ample room for more, and there will be even more. But C is very likely to still be used in decades from now, and C++, maybe. I have more mixed feelings about C++ (not just personal feelings with the language, but about its future, which is not that clear to me at this point.)
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Running the world as in what is used to program the computers that handle your every day life.
You /could/ argue the web languages like JavaScript truly run the world, but even those are largely implemented in C.
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I'm on a "Mainframes" Facebook group (I used to program mainframes for a living) - they send out periodic reminders how relevant mainframes still are ("mainframes process 90% of credit card transactions"), how popular COBOL still is ("500 million mobile phone users are connected to COBOL", and how wonderful things like CICS are... (I never programmed in COBOL. I did port an application from a PDP11 to CICS using PL/1 one summer. Mostly I programmed DECs in Assembly.)
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That's mostly a bit of a cherry picked set of statistics. Mainframes are still made and sold (mostly by IBM and their Z/Architecture platform), and used for applications where the cost of replacing half a century old code (sorry) just can't be replaced. Rest assured that even where mainframes are concerned, C is still used, like Linux on Z, and through whatever server actually interfaces with the mainframe (you're not gonna directly connect into a single mainframe, rather a server will ask granddaddy core to manage the critical stuff).
PDPs are also not mainframes (not in the form factor sense), and I don't believe DEC every made a /mainframe/ as that was IBM territory. DEC made some pretty sweet minicomputers though, and are where you can place a pin and declare the start of the modern C/Unix era. You already knew all that, though.
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Running the world as in what is used to program the computers that handle your every day life.
You /could/ argue the web languages like JavaScript truly run the world, but even those are largely implemented in C.
Why stop there?
C is implemented in assembly
Assembly is interpreted in hardware and microcode (you know, the bits in your x86-64 processor that are updated after manufacture)
Hardware is defined by HDL
Hardware is executed by electrons.
:)
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12 VHDL votes (so far) and only 1 TCL (that's mine).
Nobody else using TCL with Vivado (Xilinx)?
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12 VHDL votes (so far) and only 1 TCL (that's mine).
Nobody else using TCL with Vivado (Xilinx)?
Yes I probably should have ticked that, but I only touch some TCL scripts once in a blue moon. There is plenty of legacy TCL codebase out there on UNIX machines.
edit: I am surprised VHDL is outpacing Verilog.
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Keep things simple.
Embedded Micro = C
PC Side = Python
Programmable logic = VHDL
The only think I would consider might need changing is learning Verilog at some point.
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That's mostly a bit of a cherry picked set of statistics.
Yes, of course. So will be the results of this survey. That tends to be the way that surveys work. And marketing reports, too.
[DEC] PDPs are also not mainframes (not in the form factor sense), and I don't believe DEC every made a /mainframe/ as that was IBM territory.
The PDP-10 was a mainframe; that's what we called it, anyway. 36bit CPU, similar in size and performance to IBM370/168 of a similar vintage (~1975-1980)
It's a little hard to compare, since IBMs of the day tended to emphasize batch, while the DEC Mainframes emphasized Timesharing. A lot of big tech colleges (MIT, Stanford, CMU) had PDP-10s. Much of what would eventually be the Internet was developed on them. Stanford had at least 7 when I was working on them there, ~85-87. Not counting the clone(s.) The PDP10 had a beautiful instruction set (like the PDP11 in elegance, but totally different.) (apparently, not so good for making faster :-( )
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I use C, C++, xC, ASM, and... CUPL. CUPL wasn't an options so I only picked the C's(I forgot ASM).
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I mainly use common lisp or racket for anything on the PC, and (unwillingly) C for anything embedded. I also know Verilog, but want to learn and use migen instead.
I do hope this thread doesn't devolve into arguing as usual
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Same here. Although I picked VHDL, I expected Verilog to outnumber it.
Why so? I have actually tried and looked up figures about this, and couldn't find any. In my personal job experience, I've seen more projects in VHDL than in Verilog, but having worked mostly with european companies, that may be logical. VDHL is well represented in Europe.
OTOH, Verilog is very US-centric I think. Sure it's used worldwide, but I'd expect a significant prevalence in the US compared to other countries. And this forum has an international audience.
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The PDP-10 was a mainframe; that's what we called it, anyway. 36bit CPU, similar in size and performance to IBM370/168 of a similar vintage (~1975-1980)
It's a little hard to compare, since IBMs of the day tended to emphasize batch, while the DEC Mainframes emphasized Timesharing. A lot of big tech colleges (MIT, Stanford, CMU) had PDP-10s. Much of what would eventually be the Internet was developed on them. Stanford had at least 7 when I was working on them there, ~85-87. Not counting the clone(s.) The PDP10 had a beautiful instruction set (like the PDP11 in elegance, but totally different.) (apparently, not so good for making faster :-( )
Huh, you're absolutely correct. I didn't even know about the PDP 10 being a mainframe. :-//
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Hi all,
I think it is time to get a poll about the most used languages in the EE community.
We see these polls on a weekly basis, it seems ...