Poll

Do you like Python?

Yes, I love it.
21 (23.3%)
Yes, I like it.
24 (26.7%)
No, I don't like it
17 (18.9%)
No, I hate it.
14 (15.6%)
No opinion, indiferent
11 (12.2%)
I refuse to answer
3 (3.3%)

Total Members Voted: 89

Author Topic: Python becomes the most popular language  (Read 94535 times)

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Offline PicuinoTopic starter

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #250 on: November 10, 2021, 07:39:53 pm »
Does anyone know of another good index for programming languages ​​that measures usage or another interesting parameter?
 


Offline Just_another_Dave

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #252 on: November 10, 2021, 09:15:52 pm »
Does anyone know of another good index for programming languages ​​that measures usage or another interesting parameter?

Language usage in GitHub projects: https://madnight.github.io/githut/#/pull_requests/2021/3

A similar statistic can also be found in: https://githut.info/
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #253 on: November 10, 2021, 09:37:39 pm »
Maybe pull requests are related to developers having to fix previous fixes regularly :)

https://madnight.github.io/githut/#/issues/2021/3

There, could either be that python is very popular, thus creating lots of projects, or it's easier to make mistakes and attract issue reports.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #254 on: November 10, 2021, 09:38:26 pm »
While any popularity index is questionable per se, and TIOBE is no exception, at least it gets its data from a number of different sources. Using a single one will always be more biased.

It's fun to see that the #1 language on github is Javascript. Although I would take even this with a pinch of salt, given how github projects are classified in terms of languages. (Would be nice to know how they aggregated the numbers in this index: because while each project individually shows a list of languages it uses with a % - projects are attributed a main language (automatically?) and I've found that in practice it was often misleading.)

« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 09:40:09 pm by SiliconWizard »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #255 on: November 10, 2021, 11:23:14 pm »
Does anyone know of another good index for programming languages ​​that measures usage or another interesting parameter?

Language usage in GitHub projects: https://madnight.github.io/githut/#/pull_requests/2021/3

A similar statistic can also be found in: https://githut.info/

Be aware that a source of bias in those figures is that github mostly hosts open and free software.

That means that the part of the programming world that doesn't want to share won't be well represented. So for example, I can't see Ada at all but I can see Smalltalk - my instinct is that there is much more Ada written every year than Smalltalk but it is written in places that mandate Ada and are very much unminded to share their code outside of 4 very well guarded walls.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #256 on: November 15, 2021, 08:50:10 am »
Just posting this here, since that time of the year is about to come around again. Discuss in groups  :popcorn:
https://www.r-bloggers.com/2018/12/advent-of-code-most-popular-languages/

Sign up for 2021 and improve the statistics for your favorite language!
https://adventofcode.com/2021/about
« Last Edit: November 15, 2021, 08:55:06 am by bpiphany »
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #257 on: November 15, 2021, 10:16:51 am »
Just posting this here, since that time of the year is about to come around again. Discuss in groups  :popcorn:
https://www.r-bloggers.com/2018/12/advent-of-code-most-popular-languages/

Sign up for 2021 and improve the statistics for your favorite language!
https://adventofcode.com/2021/about
With python being so much ahead of PHP and Javascript, hopefully we see it being integrated to web browsers in the future.
It would be so great to generate .html files with python code executed in them.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #258 on: November 15, 2021, 10:31:44 am »
 
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Offline PicuinoTopic starter

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #259 on: January 22, 2022, 11:35:56 am »
"
TIOBE Index for January 2022
January Headline: Python Programming Language of the Year 2021

Python has won the prestigious TIOBE Programming Language of the Year award. Congratulations! This is the second time in a row. The award is given to the programming language that has gained the highest increase in ratings in one year. C# was on its way to get the title for the first time in history, but Python surpassed C# in the last month.

Python started at position #3 of the TIOBE index at the beginning of 2021 and left both Java and C behind to become the number one of the TIOBE index. But Python's popularity didn't stop there. It is currently more than 1 percent ahead of the rest. Java's all time record of 26.49% ratings in 2001 is still far away, but Python has it all to become the de facto standard programming language for many domains. There are no signs that Python's triumphal march will stop soon.

Are there any serious contenders for Python? Any new and shiny languages that might compete in the future? If we look at the promising languages of the last few years, we see the following changes in 2021: Swift from #13 to #10, Go from #14 to #13, Rust from #26 to #26, Julia from #23 to #28, Kotlin from #40 to #29, Dart from #25 to #37, and TypeScript from #42 to #49. So, except may be for Swift and Go, we don't expect any new languages entering the top 5 or even the top 3 any time soon.
"
« Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 11:38:33 am by Picuino »
 

Offline DiTBho

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #260 on: January 22, 2022, 07:34:21 pm »
ucpython on graphic calculators is a mode hype but it's practically a bad idea because it's less usable than basic
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #261 on: January 22, 2022, 07:49:54 pm »
ucpython on graphic calculators is a mode hype but it's practically a bad idea because it's less usable than basic

Python in general, and its derivatives in particular, are a mode hype. =)

The language HP used for the HP Prime is a reasonable one for this purpose. It comes from the HP Basic that was first introduced in the HP38G and then made it in the HP39gII before hitting the Prime.


 
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Offline ejeffrey

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #262 on: January 24, 2022, 01:42:30 am »
I have tried Python and would certainly not want to use it again.

Python for math seems to be mandatory. I have different feelings and opinions, but it's practically irrelevant, I have to follow the hype, otherwise there are neither libraries nor tools  :-//

If it has the libraries and tools you need maybe it's not hype and other people need those too?
 
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #263 on: January 24, 2022, 02:10:57 am »
If it has the libraries and tools you need maybe it's not hype and other people need those too?
Or maybe everyone is just following the hype, because they fear that by doing otherwise, they'll stand out or drop out somehow?

I do not know, though.  I use Python.  I also used to do a lot of PHP backend programming, back in the day when PHP used to be an order of magnitude more horrible than today (magic_quotes_gpc stuff in particular).  One uses the tools that are available.

The fact that some tools are widely used, does not make them crappy or non-hyped; only popular.  And we do know that popularity has nothing to do with quality, and everything with branding and public relations: hype.
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #264 on: January 24, 2022, 02:39:43 am »
- my instinct is that there is much more Ada written every year than Smalltalk but it is written in places that mandate Ada and are very much unminded to share their code outside of 4 very well guarded walls.

I think you mean 5 walls :)
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #265 on: January 24, 2022, 09:46:27 am »
Quote
Or maybe everyone is just following the hype, because they fear that by doing otherwise, they'll stand out or drop out somehow?

Perhaps there should be a Tulip award.
 

Offline DiTBho

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #266 on: January 24, 2022, 12:30:47 pm »
I also used to do a lot of PHP backend programming, back in the day when PHP used to be an order of magnitude more horrible than today

An horrible example: PHPBB (a forum template) is written in PHP.

PHP + dynamic pages = you are certainly in troubles ----> the best you can do is to *sanitize* all the input fields

What do you use to *debug* PHP?
I am randomly programming web-things in PHP,  for the new year: I'd like to replace PHP with Ruby (on Rails)  ;D

The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline DiTBho

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #267 on: January 24, 2022, 12:53:08 pm »
If it has the libraries and tools you need maybe it's not hype and other people need those too?

There is a strong campaign to promote Python, it seems that a product like a graphing calculator is not a good product if it doesn't support Python.

  • "This graphing calculator is Python powered"
  • "It offers the power of Python on your finger tips"
  • "Python makes everybody a math person"
  • "...
    (words are futile,  just see it has an Python icon printed on the box)

Tested on
  • Casio fx9860giii graphic calculator
  • Numworks 2020

No matter if
  • 1: you cannot *edit* a script on your calculator, and you need to connect to a PC to do it; what's the sense of this?!? if I need a computer to edit a python script, well ... I would run the script on the computer, not on the calculator
  • 2: even if you somehow get a script loaded, well .. they python environment is completely separated to the calculator environment ... as if you had two calculators in one product, but completely separated and unable to communicate and interact (for example, you cannot use Python to calculate a table, and pass it to the Plot module because the Plot(x,y) module cannot import anything from the Python module, and the Python module cannot export anything to other modules): and again, what is the sense here?!?


"Python makes everybody a math person" ... umm, so if a calculator doesn't support Python ... then it doesn't make the user a math person.
That's the core of the new hype!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 01:09:45 pm by DiTBho »
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline madires

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #268 on: January 24, 2022, 02:23:16 pm »
And at the end of the day CPUs run machine code. >:D Another interesting point is that soft devs arguing about which programming language might be the best often treat CPUs as a magic black box. But all the different CPU architectures, designs and add-ons have an impact on what can be done with a specific CPU. We should consider the whole package!
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #269 on: January 24, 2022, 02:26:30 pm »
What do you use to *debug* PHP?
To debug PHP, you replace it with something better.
To debug code written in PHP, you use Very Careful Eyeballs, Mark II.
(Mark II are the suspicious/paranoid ones; the Mark I are the bright creative ones that were used to write the code.  To switch between the two, I use Sleep in between.)

It's not just sanitizing inputs (don't forget the CGI environment variables, and things like "../" in client-supplied URLs and paths), but making sure that whenever (temporary) files are uploaded to the server, they are not immediately accessible (published on the web tree), because that allows script drops and other nasties; and that before moving a file from that temporary storage to visible storage, it too is verified to be non-script content.

One thing that makes debugging PHP harder than other scripting languages is that while you can run the PHP interpreter from the command line, it is not the same one used for web pages (regardless of whether you use mod_php or php-as-fastcgi); even the configuration files are different.  Essentially, for PHP development, you have to setup a (local) web server that only you can access.

At least Python uses the same interpreter (if run as CGI or fastcgi), and with a bit of fiddling, you can set up a "debug harness" that runs the scripts exactly as they would as a cgi/fastcgi script.  The downside is that Python pushes hard for its own WSGI interface, which can be annoying.  (And the "on Rails" part is why I haven't delved too far into Ruby, either.  I want a frigging language that does not try to force its favourite web framework on me, dammit!  I do my own minimal, lightweight ones, please and thank you.)

In general, if the Unix owner and group of the scripts and published files were different to the owner and group running the script interpreter, you could set up checks that no user uploaded content would ever be executed as a script, eliminating basically all script drop attacks (but still leaving JavaScript-based cross-site scripting risks).   However, no web hotel (Plesk, CPanel, etc.) currently provides more than one account for a web site; you need a virtual server to do even such trivial security enhancement.  And this applies to all scripting languages, not just PHP.  The reason so many developers do not want this, is that it also means the code cannot upgrade itself anymore either, the user (or automated facility on the host) has to do it from the owner account instead.  Oh, the horror.
 
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Offline PKTKS

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #270 on: January 24, 2022, 06:22:01 pm »
even though less frequent used today..

Apache mod_perl has some PERL tidbits hard to replace w/any other alternative...
even faster than fcgi  builds

Paul
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #271 on: January 24, 2022, 07:46:09 pm »
Apache mod_perl has some PERL tidbits hard to replace w/any other alternative...
And some downsides, like running the interpreter in the same process as the Apache server itself.  I actually use fastcgi for security features and not speed/efficiency at all; executing scripts using a dedicated account, different to the filesystem owner/group.  For the same reason, I preferred to avoid mod_php too, and use the fastcgi-enabled PHP interpreter binary instead.

Most recently, I've looked at using my own Python3 code as the fastcgi dispatcher daemon (on a vhost basis).  That way, the dispatcher could load e.g. the navigation information and other commonly used data from Python before any requests arrive, and fork the interpreter process (keeping all that useful Python data, removing any security-sensitive data) for each page request.  I will probably do that with one of the other scripting languages, when I encounter one I like enough.

As to Perl itself, I have PTSD from having to try and maintain an installation of a horrible Perl web groupware, before the turn of the century.  I know it is completely my own fault and not Perl's fault, since anyone can write such horrible stuff in any language, but I just can't touch Perl anymore.

I did learn from that though: I never started relying on any similarly horrible PHP code, and instead always wrote the most critical parts myself.  I knew that if I'd have to keep some horrible PHP project usable, I'd soon be turned off PHP the same way.

Consider it a personal oddity of mine, or perhaps a battle wound...  :-//
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 07:49:09 pm by Nominal Animal »
 
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #272 on: January 24, 2022, 09:38:00 pm »

an installation of a horrible Perl web groupware

We need names!

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #273 on: January 24, 2022, 10:23:35 pm »

an installation of a horrible Perl web groupware

We need names!

From memory there were several abominations that might fit that description.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Python becomes the most popular language
« Reply #274 on: January 24, 2022, 11:11:36 pm »
an installation of a horrible Perl web groupware
We need names!
I don't wanna, because I actually like the authors, and I don't want them get pissed at me.
 


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