The Rust Megathread

[Raymund Hofmann]

Had a interesting read about the "safety" of Rust.

https://medium.com/@shnatsel/how-rusts-standard-library-was-vulnerable-for-years-and-nobody-noticed-aebf0503c3d6

[tggzzz]

And then there's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

My entire business runs on pretending that doesn't exist

Does that make you a disaster capitalist?

[tggzzz]

C-like languages are dead in that space. Everything is too mutable to handle concurrency effectively and scale well. Most of the synchronisation primitives we use are to work around that.

The concurrency problem is not a problem of the language, it is a problem of the programmer.

If the language doesn't haver primitives with the necessary semantics, then even the best programmer cannot succeed. Those with Dunning-Jruger syndrome might think they have succeeded, but...

If you build a castle on sand, it doesn't matter how good the builders are.

Until very recently, c didn't have the semantics. It remains to be seen whether the semantics are sufficient, and whether they are implemented correctly.

Looks like you just read the first sentence and it was sufficient to trigger your denial. Isn't that what Dunning Kruger described?

My point was that burdening the programmer with more primitives and semantics probably will not work, because if it would, it could have worked since more than 20 years and we wouldn't wait for anything to compute while 7/8 cores and 2 GPUs are idling.

You need the right concepts and semantics, and the fewer the better.

C++ explicitly avoided choosing a few simple semantics in favour of letting each programmer choose a different (often incompatible) of the language and concepts.

Apart from that you are discussing application lspecific issues, not language issues.

[tggzzz]

Had a interesting read about the "safety" of Rust.

https://medium.com/@shnatsel/how-rusts-standard-library-was-vulnerable-for-years-and-nobody-noticed-aebf0503c3d6

You seem to see the world in black and white; you misinterpret and misrepresent what other people are saying as X is all good or all bad.

In reality the world is shades of grey. In this case c is blacker and rust might be whiter.

I distrust anyone that doesn't recognise greyness, since it shows imbalance.

[bd139]

And then there's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

My entire business runs on pretending that doesn't exist

Does that make you a disaster capitalist?

Opportunist perhaps. In the house of the blind, the man with one eye is king. Unfortunately half the house wants your advice and the other side want to poke your good eye out.

Had a interesting read about the "safety" of Rust.

https://medium.com/@shnatsel/how-rusts-standard-library-was-vulnerable-for-years-and-nobody-noticed-aebf0503c3d6

You seem to see the world in black and white; you misinterpret and misrepresent what other people are saying as X is all good or all bad.

In reality the world is shades of grey. In this case c is blacker and rust might be whiter.

I distrust anyone that doesn't recognise greyness, since it shows imbalance.

Grey is an understatement. Everything is somewhere to the side of the scale. It’s brown and stinks. Product selection is about extracting the juicy bits of sweetcorn from the turd. It’s still a turd though and you have to eat it every day. Yum.

[Raymund Hofmann]

And then there's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

My entire business runs on pretending that doesn't exist

So you pretend it doesn't apply to you?

[bd139]

And then there's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

My entire business runs on pretending that doesn't exist

So you pretend it doesn't apply to you?

No, just the business. The business is a facade. If someone comes with a problem, the business must sell an answer or turn a customer away, the latter of which is poor business acumen. Thus the business knows everything and is not subject to that theory, with the disclaimer of a lead time, exploration, analysis and a price. It's my responsibility to make sure that when it applies to me personally, I bridge the gap between ignorance and competence properly before reaching any conclusions. This is how think tanks, research companies and consultancies operate. Well the honest ones anyway.

The dishonest ones usually have a book of answers available ranked in order of cash backhanders for product recommendations.

[tggzzz]

Had a interesting read about the "safety" of Rust.

https://medium.com/@shnatsel/how-rusts-standard-library-was-vulnerable-for-years-and-nobody-noticed-aebf0503c3d6

You seem to see the world in black and white; you misinterpret and misrepresent what other people are saying as X is all good or all bad.

In reality the world is shades of grey. In this case c is blacker and rust might be whiter.

I distrust anyone that doesn't recognise greyness, since it shows imbalance.

Grey is an understatement. Everything is somewhere to the side of the scale. It’s brown and stinks. Product selection is about extracting the juicy bits of sweetcorn from the turd. It’s still a turd though and you have to eat it every day. Yum.

Fortunately, while I've occasionally got it wrong, I've a pretty good track record of spotting the sweetcorn.

One of the more unpleasant examples was of selecting a good product from a great company and team. They were so good they were borged by Oracle, and we all know where that leads

[bd139]

Ah yes. Been there. I got hired to port something away from Sleepycat to SQLite when Oracle rolled up to buy them out.

Edit: I was actually Oracle 9i DBA for a bit on HP/UX (back in the days of N-class hardware with the promise of Itanium on the horizon) because the usual suspect decided to go and drive his stupid Lotus car into a tree. I was offered cert but declined it as it was like wearing a nazi uniform

[SiliconWizard]

So anyway... has anyone here developed something interesting with Rust?

[bd139]

No just marketing 

[coppice]

So anyway... has anyone here developed something interesting with Rust?

You mean like recording tape, or floppy disks?

[SiliconWizard]

So anyway... has anyone here developed something interesting with Rust?

You mean like recording tape, or floppy disks?

Rust not rust.
And that was a genuine question.
And I meant someone from the forum, not someone from Mozilla.