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| [advice] Crimp butt connectors for thin wire (~ 0.6 mm dia) |
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| Zero999:
--- Quote from: IDEngineer on March 19, 2020, 10:54:11 pm --- --- Quote from: Zero999 on March 19, 2020, 09:40:30 pm ---No, crimping is far more reliable, than soldering, especially when the joint could vibrate or flex. --- End quote --- ...which is precisely why I said "With the sole exception of very particular marine situations". In fact, AYBC E-11 electrical wiring standards require crimped connectors in marine applications for exactly that reason, hence my comment. Unless the OP's application involves moving components, and in the absence of additional information, I would continue to prefer soldering for the situation as presently described. --- End quote --- You're mistaken. A crimped connection is mechanically more robust than a soldered connection, irrespective of whether it's in a wet or dry environment. You might prefer soldering and find it more convenient, but it doesn't change the fact it's mechanically weaker, than crimping. |
| IDEngineer:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on March 19, 2020, 11:29:47 pm ---You're mistaken. A crimped connection is mechanically more robust than a soldered connection, irrespective of whether it's in a wet or dry environment. --- End quote --- I said nothing about wet vs. dry. The marine electrical requirements relate to vibration, which is an issue on watercraft. Review my earlier response to you, where I agreed with your statement regarding "vibrate or flex". I quoted AYBC E-11 specifically because it is concerned with vibration and flex, not because of moisture. |
| IDEngineer:
For community benefit, here's the relevant part of E-11: "11.14.3.7: Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor." This is followed by an explanatory note: "When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided." Note the complete absence of anything relating to wet vs. dry. I suspect they presume anyone doing electrical design for watercraft will either already know to consider that, or will soon learn. |
| Monkeh:
Watercraft are far from the only high vibration environment. What, exactly, about a crimp is going to deteriorate and make it less suitable than solder? |
| IDEngineer:
--- Quote from: Monkeh on March 19, 2020, 11:51:07 pm ---Watercraft are far from the only high vibration environment. --- End quote --- Agreed, but marine is the only environment I regularly work in where there is an actual RULE about soldered vs. crimped connections. And the OP's environment doesn't sound like high vibration from the info provided. --- Quote ---What, exactly, about a crimp is going to deteriorate and make it less suitable than solder? --- End quote --- We design and manufacture sensors for the marine industry. As a result, we do a lot of R&D in new and existing boats. I long ago lost count of the number of crimped connections we've found loose, dangling, or otherwise disconnected on existing boats. We're talking many, many, many dozens of such broken crimp connections. Usually one of the two wires wiggles free from the crimp itself, leaving the two ends hanging or (worse) lying on the bottom of the hull, potentially exposed to fluids that accumulate there (including water, fuel, and oil). I suspect what happens in many cases is that the additional mass of the crimp itself "jerks" down on the wires during normal watercraft operation. We regularly measure 2-3G shocks on the Z axis from the hull hitting chop, and the crimp experiences that over and over during years of operation. This is the mechanical equivalent of someone yanking on the wires, which over time can lead to one of them pulling out of the crimp. Never once have I seen a "broken" solder connection on a watercraft. I've seen plenty that weren't properly strain relieved, but none that were broken. My solution in such cases is to discard the crimp, solder and heat shrink the connection, and then mechanically support and strain relieve it. This complies with A-11. AYBC *prefers* crimps but allows properly supported soldered connections, as I quoted above. The result is much more reliable than a crimped connection, IMHO. Granted you could get additional reliability out of a crimp by strain relieving it too, but since the spec doesn't require that nobody does it, with the long-term results as described. The funny part is that the watercraft owners/operators often say something like "Yeah, that stopped working a long time ago but we never figured out why." These crimps are often buried behind bulkheads where they are not readily inspectable. Such connections should be made as permanent as possible (such as the technique I described above) on the presumption that no one may ever view them again. |
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