Author Topic: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design  (Read 309645 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline m3vuv

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1738
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #300 on: August 21, 2020, 05:47:50 pm »
measuring a 3r9 resistor
 

Offline m3vuv

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1738
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #301 on: August 21, 2020, 05:49:36 pm »
measuring a 1.1 ohm resistor
 

Offline m3vuv

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1738
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #302 on: August 21, 2020, 06:23:20 pm »
few pics of the guts of it.
 

Offline m3vuv

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1738
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #303 on: August 21, 2020, 06:27:22 pm »
final pic
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23021
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #304 on: August 21, 2020, 06:58:10 pm »
Nice work. Also good use for those horrid Bradley meters  :-DD. Thumbs up here  :-+
 

Offline m3vuv

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1738
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #305 on: August 21, 2020, 09:15:35 pm »
thats what i thought,i brought 5 of those meters from j,birketts in lincoln for £5 a pop,absolute baskets to work on so gave up,handy for the meter movements tho.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23021
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #306 on: August 21, 2020, 09:18:32 pm »
Wow is he still around? I went in there probably 20 years ago now purely by accident after driving past and it looked interesting. Came out with a whole box of crap and an angry and hot girlfriend  :-DD
 

Offline m3vuv

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1738
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #307 on: August 22, 2020, 09:42:58 am »
Yes he is still going,i was in there chatting with him a few months ago,he is over 90yrs old now,still sharp as a needle tho,i was asking about collins 318t radios,said he had a load but brought them from the raf and sold them all to the army,interesting fella,just as deaf as a post!.
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Offline m3vuv

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1738
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #308 on: August 23, 2020, 06:34:52 pm »
just found a .1 ohm .5% resistor to measure,sort of taken back how well it reads such low values,the big meter scale makes it so easy to read,this ones a keeper!
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9057
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #309 on: August 23, 2020, 07:34:56 pm »
And the "Lethal Warning" label adds a little extra something to it. ;D
TEA is the way. | TEA Time channel
 

Offline m3vuv

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1738
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #310 on: August 29, 2020, 03:00:29 pm »
mr diddy,is there anyway i can run this from a pp3 9v battery,just less hassle than lithium ion batterys with the associated bms etc for charging,a single pp3 would be better,cheers m3vuv.
 

Offline rogerggbr

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: gb
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #311 on: October 23, 2020, 06:18:44 pm »
Just like to add my thanks to Jay_Diddy_B for the original design and all the posts above which helped. I used vero board, a spare box and bought a new meter. Just need to tidy up and label up properly but works really well at those low ranges. 1095846-01095850-1
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139, battlecoder

Offline Jay_Diddy_BTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2733
  • Country: ca
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #312 on: October 23, 2020, 07:54:45 pm »
rogerggbr,

First of all welcome to the EEVBlog forum!!

and thank you for the kind words and sharing the pictures of the ESR meter that you built.

( I see from your profile that you are from West Yorkshire. I originate from South Yorkshire, but that was a long time ago).

Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
 
The following users thanked this post: rogerggbr

Offline battlecoder

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Country: cl
    • A BIT of Mystery
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #313 on: October 23, 2020, 08:50:55 pm »
Just like to add my thanks to Jay_Diddy_B for the original design and all the posts above which helped. I used vero board, a spare box and bought a new meter. Just need to tidy up and label up properly but works really well at those low ranges. (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
I have to admit I like coming back to this thread to see the builds from the community, so thanks for sharing yours, @rogerggbr!

I *really* like this circuit. It's so elegantly simple, and works really well, so thanks again @Jay_Diddy_B for the awesome contribution. Even when I got an LCR meter (that can do ESR) after I built mine, I always check the result against your device.
 
The following users thanked this post: rogerggbr

Offline zoltanh

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ro
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #314 on: November 15, 2020, 11:49:58 am »
Hi,

Greetings from Romania. I built the ESR meter and I would say it is great. However, the microA of 50microA I have is a small one. I have another one of 250 microA and one of 500 microA, both with reasonable size. I built the 250 microA ESR and 1 mA ESR but both of them do not get out more than 150 microA. I checked everything, voltages, signals' levels and forms on oscilloscope and everything it seems to be in line with all available info herein.
Is here somebody who built any of these two variants, 250  microA or 1 mA ? If yes, could you share to me what level of current (maximum deflection) he obtained and eventually what components values he put it or any advice as I do not understand what is wrong with mine? I suspect something is wrong with amplification factor but could not figure out what or why.
I apologize for my ignorance and thank you for help.
 

Offline kripton2035

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2587
  • Country: fr
    • kripton2035 schematics repository
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #315 on: November 15, 2020, 12:25:09 pm »
did you try the other variant of the esr meter, made by the same author.
see here : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esr-meter-adapter-design-and-construction/
it has the advantage of beeing more robust to charged capacitors, and to output to any voltmeter (or your multimeter)
so that you can use any voltmeter you want, analog or digital.
 

Offline zoltanh

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ro
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #316 on: November 15, 2020, 06:37:05 pm »
Hi,

Thank you for reply.
I did not try it. I prepared the pcb and passive components. Unfortunately, I do not have the CIs. I am looking to find out a source at reasonable price for my budget.
However, I would like to finish the build of either 250 microA or 1 mA. Unfortunaley, I do not know what I miss or mistake there. Therefore, I am interested if somebody built any of them and what he can advise me about.
 

Offline Jay_Diddy_BTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2733
  • Country: ca
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #317 on: November 16, 2020, 11:57:50 am »
Hi,

Thank you for reply.
I did not try it. I prepared the pcb and passive components. Unfortunately, I do not have the CIs. I am looking to find out a source at reasonable price for my budget.
However, I would like to finish the build of either 250 microA or 1 mA. Unfortunaley, I do not know what I miss or mistake there. Therefore, I am interested if somebody built any of them and what he can advise me about.

Hi zoltanh and the group,


250uA

The discussion on using a 250uA meter starts at reply 227 here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/5-transistor-esr-meter-design/msg2456304/#msg2456304

I gave forum member Richard9026 the modifications that are required. He built a meter using these changes.

In reply 229 Richard9026 reported that these modifications worked.

1mA

There have been repeated requests for a version that uses a 1mA meter. This is not as easy to do. The current required is 20x the original design.

Link: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/5-transistor-esr-meter-design/msg3008380/#msg3008380

In reply 265 I shared an LTspice that shows the modification required for a 1mA version. I have never built this version.
Forum member M3VUV built the 1mA version. In reply 289 M3VUV reported:

Hi all,ive just built the version of this using the 1ma meter movement,strange thing is with the test probes open it reads 3/4 scale to the right,when the test probes are shorted it goes fully to the left,any ideas?,cheers in advance.m3vuv.

In reply 298 M3VUV reported:

Well,ive sorted it,i lfted the ground of the regulator and added an led + a 1n5711 schottky diode between that and ground(shall use the led as an on indicator later)that lifted the 7805 output to about 7.1v,now the meter will go full scale,and i get 125 milivolt at the test probes so still good for in circuit testing,im running it from a 3s 3p lion 18650 battery pack thats 7.2 ah so should last a while on a charge,will upload some pics soon,it reads about %10 low but thats as near as dam it for me!,cheers jay 73 m3vuv.

In short, the 1mA circuit works if you increase the voltage from 5V to 7V.

I have not investigated this.

Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B

 
The following users thanked this post: Cliff Matthews

Offline zoltanh

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ro
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #318 on: November 16, 2020, 07:45:19 pm »
Hi,

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my messages.
I have read all the posts of this subject at least three times each, hoping that I missed something which to help me to figure out what is not ok.
As I said I succeeded to build and to get it works for 50 microA variant and up to 150 microA (actually, it was 147 microA) with both variants 250 microA and 1 mA schematics but I could not get higher deflection, amperage.
I tried also to increase the voltage supply. Sadly, I could not increase the output current value above mentioned level, and actually increasing the voltage supply above 7V decreased the deflection to around 110-104 microA.
I prepared other two THT PCBs and one smd PCB and my intention is to build one 250 microA THT, 1 mA THT and 1 mA SMD and see if I can get at least 250 microA. I pretty sure your simulations are fine and something is wrong with my PCBAs but I have no clue what it could be.
I would appreciate any advice as I do not have any idea what to check more and eventually what to experiment (I did not mention before that I did several trials with different values of resistors and capacitors in emitter/collector of Q3, Q4 and Q5 but w/o success).

Thank you.
 

Offline zoltanh

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ro
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #319 on: November 26, 2020, 10:00:17 pm »
Hi,

I finished a new one PCBA, version 1 mA. This is the circuit diagram from #265 which means 60/6 ohms resistors in collector of Q3. I checked/measured each component and I would say the measured values with UNIT-T 139C are almost identical with the values in the circuit diagram. The transistors have beta higher than 400. The PCBA did not reach 1mA but it reaches close. It means 800 microA.
Anyway, still I have a problem. I made a scaled scale, keeping aspect ratio, of scale published by Jay_Diddy_B. Now, on this scale, the deflection in first half of the scale is half of the printed values. In the second half the proportion is not kept anymore and close to the left end of the scale the ratio is 2/3. As the scale is keeping the aspect ratio I expected to have same deflections for same resistance values.
I did not continue and I gave up to investigate, but now when I wrote this post I realized that there is another diagram of this circuit which is in the post #281 which means 30/3 ohms in collector of Q3, which are the values of 50 microA version. I suppose this is the reason for my 50% deviation of values in first half of scale and almost 25% deviation of values at the left end of scale. Am I right?
I will investigate/change tomorrow the mentioned resistors and check the status.
 

Offline zoltanh

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ro
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #320 on: November 27, 2020, 08:50:49 pm »
I changed with with 30/3 resistors and it is close. The indications are double almost, but it still does not follow the scale. It has 0.2 ohms less on indications on the right side of scale (below 1.6 ohms). I did not check on left side of scale. Any advices?
 

Offline zoltanh

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ro
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #321 on: November 30, 2020, 05:36:53 pm »
First of all, a big Thank You to Jay_Diddy_B for this project. It is a piece of art.
So, a short history. Since few months I went back to my love, electronics. Since many years I had not time and my job was not as an electrical/electronics engineer, and my passion was on hold, till this pandemic crisis erupted. Now, I had time, and I reorganized my workshop as it was converted, along of the years, in the warehouse of useless things around, which missed to be throw away. I started to design and build or build or just repair different electronics things.
This project was a challenge as none of my initial PCBAs, versions of current level, worked as expected. With the last one, 1 mA version, I went back to oscilloscope, books to remember what I learnt in University and did not practice, and paper and pencil as I just decided to learn Micro Cap simulation and it was not enough to solve the issue. The conclusions:
1. Schematics with R10 = 60 ohms and R8 = 6 ohms (first circuit diagra in the post) does not work with the scale of Jay_Diddy_B. Actually, he mention in one post that his design is based on 3 ohms and not 1 ohm or 10 ohms he presented in the charts. It works with 30 ohms and 3 ohms.
2. My version of 1 mA had an error comparing with the mentioned scale of 10%. I reduced R10 value (30ohms)with 10%, which means 27 ohms and it is sharp aligned with the values on the scale for each measurement.
3. If you would like to use the above mentioned scale and do not build it, which I strongly advice as, in my opinion, its repeatability and accuracy are unexpected good, then my suggestion is to replace R10 with a trim pot and adjust its value by measuring different resistor against the scale. Attention, you must do the zero after each adjustment of the R10 value. With R10 = 27 ohms I obtained full alignment with the scale for any value I measured, on the right and left side of scale.
4. To create the print of scale of Jay_Diddy_B my solution was to convert the picture, he published herein, in vector by Inkscape and then resized to the meter dimension, keeping the aspect ratio. Just resized the picture, due to the pixel manipulation, gave to me errors in dimensions.
5. The different current versions are optimized by the ratio between R15(R20) and R14(R19). Based on my calculation the optimized ratio for proportional increase is 3.63, which is the ratio of 50 microA R15/R14=R20/R19= 3.63 (I am referring to the annotations from the first circuit diagram from the post).
6. Checking the calculations by measuring few current versions I built, following the above rule, with a good approximation, to define a certain current value version, you just need to divide the value of R14(R19) of 50 microA with new current multiplication ratio and obtain the new value of R14(R19) for that current value. Multiply the new value of R14(R19) with 3.63 you find out the value for R15(R20). This is an approximation but it worked on all five current level PCBAs I built. My 50 microA PCBA version is able to deliver 140 mA, my PCBA version of 250 microA published herein by Jay_Diddy_B, R15(R20)=680 ohms, R14(R19) = 160 ohms delivers maximum 246 microA (330ohms/160 ohms= 2.06 and 140microAX2.06 =289microA but this is not following the ratio of 3.63!), my version of 1000 microA R15(R20)=220 ohms, R14(R19)=68ohms delivers 676 microA (330 ohms/68 ohms = 4.85 and 140microAX4.85=679 microA, ratio is 3.24). The aproximation is verified also for the other versions I built but the text it is already too long.
7.Based on this approximation I will build, in order to check if it is still valid the version of R14(R19) = 40 ohms, R15(R20) = 160 ohms R16(R21) = 4 ohms. It must deliver maximum 1100 microA according the above calculus approximation.
 

Offline Jay_Diddy_BTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2733
  • Country: ca
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #322 on: December 01, 2020, 12:28:05 am »
zoltanh,

I am pleased that you were able to get the meter to work.

Would you like to share you schematic and a few pictures of your meter with the group?

It may help other people who want to build the 1mA version.

Best regards,

Jay_Diddy_B
 

Offline zoltanh

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ro
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #323 on: December 02, 2020, 10:51:26 am »
Hi,

This is the schematics I was referring about.
And herein few pictures.
 

Offline zoltanh

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 38
  • Country: ro
Re: 5 Transistor ESR Meter Design
« Reply #324 on: December 02, 2020, 10:53:06 am »
It seems I did not succeed to attach the schematics. I do it again.
 
The following users thanked this post: Cliff Matthews


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf