A New Friend of My Pickit2

[Mechatrommer]

Well... i'm sorry if the topic didnt met your expectation, but... i just want to gladly share that i've got my months years old Pickit2 a friend, check it out! an Atmel Programmer, not the original though, its hard for me to find the original (months of search and waiting in my normal shopping complex ebay). Now i can start my venture on Atmel "bare chip" Programming.

Not just that, i also ordered the smallest chip stock for each PIC and AVR, the pic10f206 and aTTiny13A. for months i've been astonished that such a very small creature are actually programmable and can do many things. I've been programming for years, but only until recently i've been able to put my codes into an ant sized device, fantastic! its the 21st century's 7th wonder of the world... for me.

Some simple review... AVR Programmer (compared to pickit2):

Pros) Firmware Upgradable and detected as AVR ISP MkII in AVR Studio 4, fastest programming than pickit2 (i feel), Flexible programming wires/cable that i can put the Programmer and dev board in any orientation. Programmer's PC UI embedded in the Development IDE (AVR Studio) and no need to keep opening the same hex for programming.

Cons) Need external (no internal) Vdd for programming Atmel (to be modded later), No nice HEX display in Programmer PC UI, just as Pickit2, No logic analyzer (AFAIK).

For the chip:

pic10f206: Pro: the smallest, 10 cent cheaper... Con: the slower (1++MHz int osc), only IO n comparator (with bug!) avail.
atTiny13a: Pro: the faster (9++MHz int osc), no funky asm nomenclature, xtra 2 pins, PWM ADC IO COMP everything, larger storage... Cons: just... a bit bigger.

[Simon]

Well I'll be sticking to pics, I'm not really up to taming the whole zoo 

[Mechatrommer]

Well I'll be sticking to pics, I'm not really up to taming the whole zoo 

only two animals... for now, out of many. i wish i could fully transfer to AVR, but for now, i still cant, there is still some bonding between me and the pic.

[Simon]

so what do you find in AVR that you don't in pic's ?

[mikeselectricstuff]

You donr; actually need the AVRISP - You can program AVRs with the PICKit2
Imagine the support call to Microchip....
Punter : "Hello, I'm having trouble programming my device with PicKit2"
Microchip : "What device are you using?"
Punter : "ATMEGA88"
Microchip : WTF?<click>

I'm sure some people will have 'religious' objections to programming AVRs with a PIC, But they're just dickhead fanboys.
I actually did something similar in a commercial product many years ago before cheap AVRs had self-programming - product had two AVRs, and a low-end PIC whose only job was to reprogram the AVR firmware via SPI....

[EEVblog]

so what do you find in AVR that you don't in pic's ?

Not much really. Pro's and Cons both ways.
A couple of the more obscure AVR's have programmable gain diff amps which is nice.

Dave.

[Mechatrommer]

@simon: what i find in AVR? well... mainly is... speed (and that is my concern, i dont know about you or others). but what i find in PIC? well.... availability, and... someone guaranteed that. thats why i cant leave either one. both of them keep running around in my head

@mike: LOL! i'm aware of that. but i saw some people having incompatibility issue with certain AVR chip. i just dont have the time to go into the hassle (i've downloaded every software actually) but only now i have the AVR "bare chip", will do the experiment when i have the time.
in case it doesnt work, i have the specialized programmer already. 

[Mechatrommer]

Not much really. Pro's and Cons both ways.
A couple of the more obscure AVR's have programmable gain diff amps which is nice.
Dave.

pretty nice indeed (well i didnt know it or at least didnt implement it frequently or at all ) but frankly, for me... if the tiny13a and pic10f206 are to compete each other, the tiny will be well ahead to win the contest (from my eyes). for just 3-4x bigger and 10cent more expensive , it got so alot of features, even if we reduce/cut out the 2 extra pins.

i thought i should be supporting atmel more and buy from market as to encourage sells, so will the availability, i hope. i know it will make no difference if its only me, so i urge everybody else to do the same! for me, atmel engineering people are just so briliant compared to PIC, its just the marketing people are the other way around.

[Simon]

well ease of use is key to success, I've not actually understood the atmel family tree. pics are easy, the bigger the number the higher end it is and from 18F on they are 16 bit instead of 8 bit

[EEVblog]

well ease of use is key to success, I've not actually understood the atmel family tree. pics are easy, the bigger the number the higher end it is and from 18F on they are 16 bit instead of 8 bit

The 18F are still only 8bit.

Dave.

[mikeselectricstuff]

..well it would be if the diff-amp performance didn't suck ass - I used a Tiny26 a few years ago for a PT100 app & found the opamp reduced the overall performance to below 8 useable bits. A cheap external opamp had way less noise and offset error. I can see why they didn't bother putting it in other devices.