EEVblog® Electronics Community Forum

Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: Mr J on August 24, 2016, 12:22:25 pm

Title: Am I going crazy???
Post by: Mr J on August 24, 2016, 12:22:25 pm
Hi everyone,

I was just going over some class materials for the Boyscout Radio Merit Badge and found an oscillator schematic on page 32 that looks like it will not work. I am going crazy or is there no feedback loop to keep the oscillator going?
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: Whales on August 24, 2016, 12:33:37 pm
Hmm.

Current entering the base will pull the top of the crystal down.  Then eventually the voltage at the top of the 10K resistor drops, prohibiting the transistor from conducting.  After the inductor collapses the top of the 10K resistor charges up again, also pulling the top of the crystal and base up.  Repeat.
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: Mr J on August 24, 2016, 12:36:16 pm
here is a close one that I breadboard and does work, look like the one on the top is missing a cap between Base and Emitter????
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: Andy Watson on August 24, 2016, 12:40:29 pm
Capacitance between the collector and base provide the feedback.
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: JimRemington on August 24, 2016, 05:51:56 pm
here is a close one that I breadboard and does work
Try breadboarding the original. I'll bet it works too.
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: PA0PBZ on August 24, 2016, 06:06:21 pm
here is a close one that I breadboard and does work
Try breadboarding the original. I'll bet it works too.

The breadboard will take care of the feedback for you.
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: StillTrying on August 24, 2016, 07:47:07 pm
Capacitance between the collector and base provide the feedback.
Is that positive or negative feedback?
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: Andy Watson on August 24, 2016, 09:17:04 pm
Capacitance between the collector and base provide the feedback.
Is that positive or negative feedback?
"Feedback" was probably a poor choice of word. The collector-base capacitance couples the output tuned-circuit back to the input tuned-circuit, i.e. the crystal. Try searching for "tuned plate tuned grid oscillator".
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 25, 2016, 12:59:06 am
It's a Miller crystal oscillator.
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: StillTrying on August 25, 2016, 02:32:13 am
"Feedback" was probably a poor choice of word. The collector-base capacitance couples the output tuned-circuit back to the input tuned-circuit, i.e. the crystal. Try searching for "tuned plate tuned grid oscillator".
After looking at 100s of oscillator circuits I've not been able to convince myself that the effect between a valve's anode and grid is the same as that between a transistor's collector an base.

"Therefore, if the plate is slightly more positive, the voltage induced on the grid (the opposite plate of this small "capacitor) will be negative."
http://electronicstheory.com/COURSES/ELECTRONICS/e101-58.htm (http://electronicstheory.com/COURSES/ELECTRONICS/e101-58.htm)
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: Cyberdragon on August 25, 2016, 02:58:12 am
There is only one way to find out, datasheet time! ;D

EDIT: Emitter-Base = 25pF
           Collector-Base = 8pF
Title: Re: Am I going crazy???
Post by: Mr J on August 25, 2016, 12:50:46 pm
It's a Miller crystal oscillator.

Thats it!!!! thanks Cyber