Author Topic: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control  (Read 6199 times)

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Offline rstofer

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2018, 07:42:35 pm »
It is unlikely that a unit can be built one-off cheaper than buying a commercial unit that is likely to work:

https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-44-bldc_motor_controllers/product-43-controller_bldc_150300a_-_hpc300h-72v#product

15 kW is a pretty big drive
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2018, 08:30:53 pm »
It is unlikely that a unit can be built one-off cheaper than buying a commercial unit that is likely to work:
imho it can. the major cost will be the power fets. just by a quick random search https://www.digikey.my/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/FDB0170N607L/FDB0170N607LCT-ND/6009697 6 of this cost $50 (other cheaper solutions maybe used such as paralleing smaller cheaper fets, if any), the drivers and mcu + passives may cost another small fractions from that. i guesstimate a total cost inc pcb of $100 at most as a one-off is feasible. but given enough experience and excluding the cost of smoked mosfets (qty based on stupidity and laziness) before get to the point. thats why suggestion of learning/diying from smaller (cheaper) circuit is recommended. once the coding, timing and sychroniation is correct, then power drive can be beefed up. my 2cnts.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 
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Offline iwtommo

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2018, 07:19:35 pm »
Looking ahead a bit, if you need a hand with the software side of things ive found the following to be invaluable

Teaching old motors new tricks https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIk4vINgJPNPOwLk7mxJoJHicLcjcrti7
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2018, 08:32:24 pm »
It is unlikely that a unit can be built one-off cheaper than buying a commercial unit that is likely to work:
imho it can. the major cost will be the power fets.

The semiconductors are one of the least expensive parts of a product.

Semis are cheap as sand.  Well, good quality sand.  Not that shitty beach stuff.

The most expensive part of such a project is the months long development cycle, equivalent to thousands of dollars of labor you could've earned at McDonalds* in the same time.  Tens of thousands, if you wind up needing multiple cycles of refinement, versus, say, the same time at a technician-level job in most fields.

*Not counting the labor cost equivalent of voluntarily crushing one's soul, mind.

That's a lot of beer!

For example, you'll easily spend $50 on the heatsink, let alone on machining it, and the labor of mounting components to it.  The capacitors alone will probably be more; this is certainly true at higher voltages, but I'm not sure offhand if it's quite as true at low voltage.  300A worth of 1210 ceramic chips is quite a lot of ceramic, though, and those babies don't come cheap, nearing a buck each.  It racks up fast.

And that's to say nothing of everything else; the control circuit will soak up $50 of chips, and assorted resistors capacitors, LEDs and so on, easily.  Maybe you'll choose to begin development on a $20 to $200 dev kit first, using anything from a cheap MCU to a fancy FPGA.

Sheesh, I already spent two or three transistors's worth just writing this post.  I need to make this a business, telling people how they're wrong. :-DD

This is really all just to say: the economics of one-offs is vastly different from production.

On a project like this, you're mostly paying, in labor, for the experience of having designed and/or completed the thing.  In that case, you're making an investment.  You might as well put that knowledge to good use by obtaining a more lucrative job.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2018, 08:43:49 pm »

The most expensive part of such a project is the months long development cycle, equivalent to thousands of dollars of labor you could've earned at McDonalds* in the same time.  Tens of thousands, if you wind up needing multiple cycles of refinement, versus, say, the same time at a technician-level job in most fields.


That was going to be my point yesterday but I didn't post it.  Something like this, starting from scratch, is going to take thousands of hours and perhaps produce a reward of about a nickle an hour - at most.

I did see some cheaper controllers on eBay and it is possible to get a nominally rated unit for about $200 as linked above.  I certainly wonder whether the controller can actually deliver 300A continuously but I'll leave that as an exercise.  The apparent cooling system (that is to say, none) certainly doesn't instill confidence.

Maybe 300A in the hobby aircraft business isn't the same as 300A in the industrial automation business.
 

Offline parasole

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2018, 05:18:25 am »
I am new here and to electronics
I have nothing resembling the required knowledge to complete this project

What is your actual target for this project, do you want to learn about BLDC controllers or you just need one?
If you just need one than cheapest route is to buy one suitable for your task.
If you want to learn than again better you start with a project you may copy and study in details... nothing is impossible, it is just time cost, and from your starting point both are going to be substantial.

There are good controllers out there which fit your requirements and yet you may build one by yourself, and one great example is VESC, just do a search on endless-sphere as advised, beside stock one there are few projects which aim high power versions by redesigning the power stage and using same brain which is a pice of art on itself...

http://vedder.se/2015/01/vesc-open-source-esc/
https://vesc-project.com/
 

Offline viperidae

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2018, 06:14:58 am »
just by a quick random search https://www.digikey.my/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/FDB0170N607L/FDB0170N607LCT-ND/6009697 6 of this cost $50
6 of those are probably good for a 50A ESC.
Their 300A rating is theoretical based on mounting to a perfect heatsink that can keep the case at 25C. 210A for 100C case temp. There are also package limitations.
 

Offline canicollTopic starter

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2018, 08:00:25 am »
Thank you again for all your replies. I'm happy I found this forum.

Work is 16-18 hours/day busy right now so I'm pretty much just working and sleeping so, I bought an 80A BLDC motor and a 100A ESC to give me something to play with right now. Over the weekend I plan to have a look at the Arduino's digital outputs and see if I can get them to mimick an R/C receiver. I know it can be done because you guys have mentioned it previously in this thread.
I also hope to have time to properly go through each reply and give them the time they deserve.

Thanks again guys,

Cameron
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2018, 02:09:14 pm »
Thank you again for all your replies. I'm happy I found this forum.

Work is 16-18 hours/day busy right now so I'm pretty much just working and sleeping so, I bought an 80A BLDC motor and a 100A ESC to give me something to play with right now. Over the weekend I plan to have a look at the Arduino's digital outputs and see if I can get them to mimick an R/C receiver. I know it can be done because you guys have mentioned it previously in this thread.
I also hope to have time to properly go through each reply and give them the time they deserve.

Thanks again guys,

Cameron

The Arduino Servo Library is probably what you want and an example comes with the IDE:

File->Examples:Examples From Libraries->Servo->Sweep

https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/Servo
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2018, 02:25:09 pm »
The most expensive part of such a project is the months long development cycle, equivalent to thousands of dollars of labor you could've earned at McDonalds* in the same time.  Tens of thousands, if you wind up needing multiple cycles of refinement, versus, say, the same time at a technician-level job in most fields.
Sheesh, I already spent two or three transistors's worth just writing this post.  I need to make this a business, telling people how they're wrong. :-DD
if we go by this notion, then nothing on this earth worth a one-off project, not even the micro current or programmable current load or other projects etc thats vastly discussed in this forum. well, some hobbiests would like to steal some of their rest time and consider it as free, and accumulated knowledge as a bonus in the process, but... ymmv.

just by a quick random search https://www.digikey.my/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/FDB0170N607L/FDB0170N607LCT-ND/6009697 6 of this cost $50
6 of those are probably good for a 50A ESC.
Their 300A rating is theoretical based on mounting to a perfect heatsink that can keep the case at 25C. 210A for 100C case temp. There are also package limitations.
fair enough, i can think of few options to that. fet will run at 50% (or less) duty cycle, either mounting it on real good active cooled heatsink (as you suggested), or paralleling them, or even use some heatsink mount fets abomination, and i think 300A rating is not per fet spec, its effective current drawn from power source, and driver will run at 120deg out of phase for each winding, so there must be current overlap between phases (winding) but i dont want to get too much deep into this homework, you maybe right, ymmv.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Design and build a 50V 300A BLDC motor control
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2018, 02:39:06 pm »
if we go by this notion, then nothing on this earth worth a one-off project, not even the micro current or programmable current load or other projects etc thats vastly discussed in this forum. well, some hobbiests would like to steal some of their rest time and consider it as free, and accumulated knowledge as a bonus in the process, but... ymmv.

I appreciate that you read my post in its entirety;

On a project like this, you're mostly paying, in labor, for the experience of having designed and/or completed the thing.  In that case, you're making an investment.  You might as well put that knowledge to good use by obtaining a more lucrative job.

Or replace "job" with "selling an actual product", that's a fine investment too. ;)

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 


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