EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: Boscoe on May 23, 2018, 04:14:29 pm
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Hi all,
This isn't electronics but it is for an electronics project. I'm looking to source a lens for a potential product however I'm having great difficulty. I essentially would like a machine vision lens but a very simple one with fixed focus, just a barrel lens basically. I need them to be around $50 or less in volume but I can't seem find anyone who even advertises such a thing. Do I have to go custom? Or is there a Digikey for optics. I don't mean Edmund optics as they are for lab use and horrendously expensive. Any advice or pointers would be great.
Thanks
Boscoe
PS: For prototyping, I'm using a lens in the link below. This lens is more than adequate, I need to know who makes them as I'm sure this is just a rebrand.
http://www.patersonphotographic.com/product/paterson-universal-enlarger-without-lens/ (http://www.patersonphotographic.com/product/paterson-universal-enlarger-without-lens/)
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Edmund is certainly the Digikey of optics- https://www.edmundoptics.com/ (https://www.edmundoptics.com/)
IMO, optics used to be an inexpensive commodity item, but cheap optics have become hard to find. Maybe try Alibaba or similar. If you can use some type of cctv lens, those can be inexpensive.
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http://www.thorlabs.com (https://www.thorlabs.com/navigation.cfm?guide_id=2087)
This is where I buy all my optics (lasers, detectors, lens, mounts, mirrors, tables etc) and have been very happy with them.
And every order comes with a tasty surprise (http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8060/img6626v.jpg). The bigger the order, the tastier.
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You can buy CS mount lenses for CCTV cheap from Aliexpress and other Chinese outfits (http://www.m12lenses.com/) ... quality, consistency, future availability, who knows. Can't argue with those prices though, a tenth of a Computar lens (https://computar.com/) (who's distributors can probably help you too for 50$ a pop).
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I've used "cheap" acrylic aspheric lenses from Edmundoptics both uncoated and coated and to be honest I wasn't impressed. We had to send about 30% of them back because of manufacturing defects, some had "cloudy" areas near the injection mold gate, in some you could seen what looked like different layer densities in the plastic and a few had small air bubbles, not much good for laser optics. Ever since then I've used ThorLabs but unfortunately not for lenses. I used to work with a guy who's job it was to design laser optics and he bought most of it from China.
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Optics is one of the areas which is a complete joke. The "traditional" Western players will sell you a pretty standard, small lens for $500, or do you a custom design at $5000/hr.
No one can afford it. It's a dead-end business. So the prices will continue to skyrocket, while the quality will continue to drop due to the total lack of ambition and innovation.
Meanwhile, a Chinese company will totally surprise you by doing you a free optical simulation when you just ask for an initial quote, in one day. For similar service (actually a 15-minute job, but no one likes to tell you this), you traditionally pay around $10000.
I have very good experience on sourcing lenses on Alibaba. Although, if you need a basic lens for a small sensor - something comparable to what's being used in average-quality HD CCTV or cheapish digital consumer cameras - don't expect to pay $50 on quantities. Expect around $2 in larger quantities, or around $3-4 in small batches.
We use the lenses in a low-resolution application, but low flare and high contrast are important for us, and several Chinese factories found from Alibaba provided high quality for that purpose.
And yes, you'll get real coated glass optics, in machined aluminium barrel, most properly engineered and optically simulated, at $2 from China. Maybe if you need to go much below $1, plastics will come into play.
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What is the size of your sensor? Is it small enough to be covered by a C mount lens?
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Might not help but I got these for my phone
https://www.aukey.com/product-category/entertainment#lenses (https://www.aukey.com/product-category/entertainment#lenses)
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https://www.surplusshed.com/
Surplus shed for you
Bargains galore although they have gotten more expensive over the years. Probably depends on stock availability
Brendan
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I am glad to hear my suspicions about the optics market are correct. I always kinda figured that the prices are a big absurd considering most of the mounting hardware is fairly straightforward to understand precision machining
I think conrad hoffman can tell us more.
How much of a divergence is there for high tech laser optics vs stuff like camera optics? Night and day?
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Surplus Shed used to sell LASER optics, costed optics lenses, Q switches beamsplitters, LASER glasses etc
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No need- I gave the clue and everybody else filled in the blanks. The big thing is if you need a decent lens in production quantities, or just a few of something you can get surplus. There are always bargains in the surplus world. BTW, Edmund started out as a surplus house! If you can piggyback on something made in quantity for some other purpose (cctv), you win. If you need a very specific lens and only that will do, expect to pay more. Also, don't forget the rather small but high performance lenses used for camera modules- if you can track down the manufacturer, rather than the high mark-up middleman.
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Oh should have said coatings for LASER optics are completely different to std optics. Usually to filter attenuate out unwanted wavelengths
Q switches designed for particular wavelengths
Way too much differences to mention in a few lines
I’ve used machine lenses adapted to Astro cameras for finders. I found buying packages cost a fortune like Sbig telescope electronic finder camera and c lens optics
Can be done st 1/3 cost buying parts individually but hey I enjoy the challenge of doing it cheaper
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https://www.surplusshed.com/ (https://www.surplusshed.com/)
Surplus shed for you
Bargains galore although they have gotten more expensive over the years. Probably depends on stock availability
Brendan
From time to time, Surplus Shed has ex-military optical assemblies (usually with NATO Stock Numbers) that would cost a fortune if new. If you do any DIY optical work, Surplus Shed is worth watching.
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Optics is one of the areas which is a complete joke. The "traditional" Western players will sell you a pretty standard, small lens for $500, or do you a custom design at $5000/hr.
No one can afford it. It's a dead-end business. So the prices will continue to skyrocket, while the quality will continue to drop due to the total lack of ambition and innovation.
Meanwhile, a Chinese company will totally surprise you by doing you a free optical simulation when you just ask for an initial quote, in one day. For similar service (actually a 15-minute job, but no one likes to tell you this), you traditionally pay around $10000.
I have very good experience on sourcing lenses on Alibaba. Although, if you need a basic lens for a small sensor - something comparable to what's being used in average-quality HD CCTV or cheapish digital consumer cameras - don't expect to pay $50 on quantities. Expect around $2 in larger quantities, or around $3-4 in small batches.
We use the lenses in a low-resolution application, but low flare and high contrast are important for us, and several Chinese factories found from Alibaba provided high quality for that purpose.
And yes, you'll get real coated glass optics, in machined aluminium barrel, most properly engineered and optically simulated, at $2 from China. Maybe if you need to go much below $1, plastics will come into play.
This is interesting, thanks! I have started to search for Chinese manufacturers. The European market is silly, I just can't see how the pricing works. I did get a quote from a European designer they wanted ridiculous money for designing and then a crazy royalty on each lens.
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Thanks all, the lens i need needs to be better than just a CCTV lens. I need higher resolution and coverage.
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Well, make sure you don't need something beyond the diffraction limit! Some of those cctv lenses are very good. If you need machine vision sorts of lenses, these are pretty good- https://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=1347 (https://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=1347) but you'll pay a dear price. IMO, they're just repackaged versions of the enlarging lenses of old, at 10X the price. Maybe that's not entirely fair, but I can't see why they should cost that much.
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China.....if an enlarger lens is all you need they are very simple lenses and I am sure you will find Chinese knock offs over there at really cheap prices.
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https://thoptics.en.alibaba.com/
Just something I came across while looking for some simple optical glass disks. Didn't buy from them.
Also consider the 3 optional lenses with the video camera (pic below) were from US$9 to $15 each. They're not c-mount unfortunately.
Search Aliexpress for
c-mount lens
cctv lens
There are very many, very cheap.