Author Topic: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays  (Read 6046 times)

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Offline RenateTopic starter

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Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« on: July 06, 2020, 05:44:27 pm »
In ye (really) olde days, oscilloscopes had round CRTs.
Then they got a bit squarer, then a bit rectangularer.

A lot of LCD display scopes today seem to be 4:3 or so.
That might be a good aspect ratio for eye diagrams or sine waves.
Still, if you're looking at some sort of data stream, I'd prefer something wider.

So, what do you think? Do you care? Would you want a scope with a wider display?
Does anybody try to sell a scope with the display as wide as the (landscape style) chassis?
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2020, 05:58:40 pm »
In that case, use a USB scope and let your PC do the rendering.

 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2020, 06:04:04 pm »
In ye (really) olde days, oscilloscopes had round CRTs.
Then they got a bit squarer, then a bit rectangularer.

A lot of LCD display scopes today seem to be 4:3 or so.
That might be a good aspect ratio for eye diagrams or sine waves.
Still, if you're looking at some sort of data stream, I'd prefer something wider.

So, what do you think? Do you care? Would you want a scope with a wider display?
Does anybody try to sell a scope with the display as wide as the (landscape style) chassis?

Todays scopes follow the trend of more or less cheaply available display sizes. So one can expect a new scope to have a 16:10 or 16:9 screen today anyway. Smartphone displays may be wider, but a scope manufacturer wouldn't use them because they're usually as quickly phased out as they appear due to rapid model changes.

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Offline RenateTopic starter

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2020, 06:09:29 pm »
In that case, use a USB scope and let your PC do the rendering.
In point of fact, that's what I do, using custom software.
 

Offline Matje

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2020, 06:47:03 pm »
So, what do you think? Do you care? Would you want a scope with a wider display?

Yes, but many current scopes have a wide screen already. E.g Rigol DS2000 and MSO5000 both have roughly 16:10 aspect ratio.

Does anybody try to sell a scope with the display as wide as the (landscape style) chassis?

Yes, e.g. LeCroy LabMaster 10-100zi or the Tektronix 5 Series. I don't recommend looking them up though, the prices are not for the faint of heart.

Anyway, I personally like real separate controls for most everything on a workhorse scope.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2020, 07:43:02 pm »
In ye (really) olde days, oscilloscopes had round CRTs.
Then they got a bit squarer, then a bit rectangularer.

With some early exceptions, CRT oscilloscopes settled on 5:4 which makes for a convenient 10 horizontal divisions and 8 vertical divisions.  Deviating further from a 1:1 aspect ratio would compromise linearity and geometry.

Quote
A lot of LCD display scopes today seem to be 4:3 or so.
That might be a good aspect ratio for eye diagrams or sine waves.
Still, if you're looking at some sort of data stream, I'd prefer something wider.

So, what do you think? Do you care? Would you want a scope with a wider display?
Does anybody try to sell a scope with the display as wide as the (landscape style) chassis?

Like capt bullshot says, for reasons of cost, modern DSOs limit themselves to the common aspect ratios used in consumer electronics so 16:10 or 16:9.  Laptop computers and desktop monitors do the same thing.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2020, 07:54:04 pm »
In ye (really) olde days, oscilloscopes had round CRTs.
Then they got a bit squarer, then a bit rectangularer.

A lot of LCD display scopes today seem to be 4:3 or so.
That might be a good aspect ratio for eye diagrams or sine waves.
Still, if you're looking at some sort of data stream, I'd prefer something wider.

So, what do you think? Do you care? Would you want a scope with a wider display?
Does anybody try to sell a scope with the display as wide as the (landscape style) chassis?
Those landscape displays do exist (1280x480 for example). It is called ultra wide.

But if you think about  it then it really doesn't matter whether the grid is rectangular or not. A wider cell has more pixels horizontally so you see more of the signal. All in all, the wider the display the more signal you can see. Most of the DSOs you can buy nowadays have wide (16:9-ish) TFT screens.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 07:56:03 pm by nctnico »
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Offline RenateTopic starter

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2020, 01:21:35 am »
Thanks for all the responses.
I just thought that since everyone has such strong opinions about oscopes, aspect ratio would weigh in somewhere.

You wouldn't believe it, but I once fixed a TV with a 10 MHz oscope.
And the sweep wasn't even calibrated! :-DD
 

Offline wizard69

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2020, 04:24:51 am »
In that case, use a USB scope and let your PC do the rendering.
In point of fact, that's what I do, using custom software.

You didn't mention your usage but have you considered a USB/PCI/LXI scope?    I know some people don't like USB scopes but I'm not sure if anybody has tried the latest USB-C/3 offerings.

As to your question, yes I prefer the wider scope displays.   A lot of that is due to how I use them at work setting up high speed packaging machinery and other electromechanical gadgets.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2020, 07:10:04 am »
Almost all modern scopes have wide aspect ratio displays because those are what are widely available and cheap.

Personally I prefer a 4:3 rectangular display on a scope but that's probably mostly because I'm old enough to have lived most of my life with 4:3 displays being the norm. I've gotten used to wide screens on TVs and laptops but wide screen scopes still look strange to me.
 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2020, 09:33:55 am »
The modern DSOs tend to add extra information to the sides or top bottom. So a wide screen could have the exra info more on the side instead of bottom.  So they can adapt to the screens available.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2020, 03:09:35 pm »

When it comes to screens, the bigger the better...   my next scope will probably be a USB model for this reason, so I can use a 24" or bigger monitor with it.

Along with the fact that I usually end up importing data to the PC from the scope because that's where I work with the data, has led me to the conclusion that the USB scopes are worth looking at.


 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2020, 04:48:58 pm »
As said, scope displays tend to follow the trend for other applications, for cost reasons to begin with. These days, a decent 16:9/16:10 IPS panel can be had for pretty cheap, whereas for a different form factor you will usually have to settle for "industrial" displays which can be VERY expensive. Back in the old CRT days, wide screens were very uncommon and would have been very expensive. So that's the cost factor.

As to usability, it really depends on your use case. If you're typically often capturing "digital" signals and want to analyze a significant portion of them, a wide screen will be better obviously. You'll appreciate having more horizontally, and won't care as much for amplitudes. But you may also want to analyze signals where amplitude matters more, and then you'll appreciate having more vertically.

Of course for specific uses, you can always either use some kind of USB scope, or just grab the samples from your scope and display them on a computer screen.
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2020, 06:24:49 pm »
My two cents: I love larger displays, especially when coupled with higher resolution A/D's. But I have mixed emotions about the "wider than ten divisions" aspect ratios. While I appreciate seeing more of the time domain on the screen, it's darned useful to be able to make quick mental calculations using the timebase and knowing there are ten displayed major increments. My Rigol 4000 series displays 14(!?!) major horizontal divisions which makes quick-glance calculations nearly impossible.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2020, 10:00:36 am »
But I have mixed emotions about the "wider than ten divisions" aspect ratios.

In the past there was a push to use vertically oriented displays but it never caught on.  LeCroy currently has something like that with a rotatable display.
 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2020, 10:38:18 am »
With more channels one also need space in the vertical direction, so especially with 4 channels a wide but flat display could be more of a problem.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2020, 01:05:19 pm »

The high end scopes all seem to come with a nice big screen.  If the screen is big enough, the aspect ratio may be less important.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2020, 01:29:14 pm »
What I would like to see is a scope that uses a HDMI display at 1440p or more. The extra resolution really makes a difference with many channels and longer captures.
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2020, 01:39:45 pm »
What I would like to see is a scope that uses a HDMI display at 1440p or more. The extra resolution really makes a difference with many channels and longer captures.

While you are under 40 and your eyesight is keen, the high resolution solution is good!  -  once past 50, most people will prefer a bigger screen, easier to see.
 

Offline RenateTopic starter

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2020, 05:23:40 pm »
The higher display resolution, higher aspect ratio of the USB scopes is what I like.
But the Hantek scope I have has a GUI out of the 1990's (and it's not in Sigrok.)
So I'm working on writing my own.
Yes, it has popup dialogs, but it also has enough hot keys and everything works with the scroll wheel too.
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2020, 06:29:23 pm »
The higher display resolution, higher aspect ratio of the USB scopes is what I like.
But the Hantek scope I have has a GUI out of the 1990's (and it's not in Sigrok.)
So I'm working on writing my own.
Yes, it has popup dialogs, but it also has enough hot keys and everything works with the scroll wheel too.
Shown: why you should use pullups on I²C. :P

Interesting! - what model Hantek do you use?
 

Offline RenateTopic starter

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2020, 06:38:36 pm »
It's the HT6052BE, which is entirely different than the more common 6022.
 
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2020, 10:39:24 pm »
While you are under 40 and your eyesight is keen, the high resolution solution is good!  -  once past 50, most people will prefer a bigger screen, easier to see.
There are so many big cheap 4K displays out there you shouldn't have any difficulty finding one. Even Walmart has quite a selection of them.

It's silly to have a nice 12 bit ADC but not the screen resolution to display it. Especially when there are multiple channels on at once and you don't want to overlap them.
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2020, 11:00:25 pm »
While you are under 40 and your eyesight is keen, the high resolution solution is good!  -  once past 50, most people will prefer a bigger screen, easier to see.
There are so many big cheap 4K displays out there you shouldn't have any difficulty finding one. Even Walmart has quite a selection of them.

It's silly to have a nice 12 bit ADC but not the screen resolution to display it. Especially when there are multiple channels on at once and you don't want to overlap them.

Are you on USB scopes as well?
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Aspect ratio of oscilloscope displays
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2020, 01:18:07 am »
Are you on USB scopes as well?
I like the idea but not the implementations that currently exist. PCIe would probably be a better idea if you want to turn a PC into a scope.

What I'm thinking of is a dedicated appliance that has the front ends, ADCs, and processing logic, but no built in display. Instead, it has HDMI output to connect an external display. Or now that COVID-19 has greatly increased the demand for working from home, stream the display over a network with hardware encoding. (Currently using some Tektronix scopes at work, the remote access feature is very useful but a bit slower than I like, not to mention the web UI for reconfiguring the scope is quite clunky.)
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