Author Topic: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......  (Read 4685 times)

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Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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I'm having a hard time finding any hardware platforms and run Linux or Android that are also designed to meet Automotive standards.  I would love to run a RPi, but if it didn't shake to death first I bet the temperature ranges would kill it. 

What's out there that's essentially an automotive qualified Raspberry Pi equivalent?
 

Online Marco

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Do car head units really work over the full grade 2 temperature range? I have my doubts. I couldn't survive in cabin temperatures across the full grade 2 temperature range.

Pi zero 2 says it has an operating temperature range of -20 to +70C, seems good enough to me.
 

Offline Codemonkey

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8devices have some industrial temperature rated devices such as their Habanero module, not seen any automotive qualified parts though.
 

Offline DC1MC

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I'm having a hard time finding any hardware platforms and run Linux or Android that are also designed to meet Automotive standards.  I would love to run a RPi, but if it didn't shake to death first I bet the temperature ranges would kill it. 

What's out there that's essentially an automotive qualified Raspberry Pi equivalent?

The Geniatech XPI-iMX8MM industrial: https://www.geniatech.com/download/xpi-imx8mm/
 

Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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The Geniatech XPI-iMX8MM industrial: https://www.geniatech.com/download/xpi-imx8mm/

Cool.  That's better than I've found so far.  Good temp ranges, and I like being nxp based instead of broadcom like the RPi.  I'll check that out.

I worry about the shock/vibration issues for automotive though.  I wish it was a different formfactor without the 0.1in box header and normal HDMI port that would probably fail fairly quickly bolted to a dashboard.
 

Offline YurkshireLad

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Do car head units really work over the full grade 2 temperature range? I have my doubts. I couldn't survive in cabin temperatures across the full grade 2 temperature range.

Pi zero 2 says it has an operating temperature range of -20 to +70C, seems good enough to me.

Is -20C the standard? That's too high for countries like Canada, surely?
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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I would think most modern boards would do pretty well in automotive vibration.  The times I've been involved in those issues the problems have been associated with large, heavy components (transformers, large caps and connectors), and/or with large area boards with minimal mounting points.  Boards like the pi are much smaller than what gave us trouble and components are relatively small and light, with many more points of support.  Even the HDMI connector isn't;very large and a compliant support would make it much less susceptible.
 

Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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https://www.everythingrf.com/community/what-is-aec-q100-qualification

Looks like even the lease aggressive grade3 still has a -40C lower range.
 


Offline max_torque

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"full" automotive temperature rating is -45 to 125 degC 
 

Online Marco

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2022, 03:02:45 pm »
Is -20C the standard?

No it's not, but lets say the oscillator refuses to work at -30 ... so what? I assume this is for entertainment, not engine function. Let the cabin warm up first.
 

Offline Scrts

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2022, 03:09:41 pm »
"full" automotive temperature rating is -45 to 125 degC

That is incorrect.

AEC-Q100 has multiple grades:
Code: [Select]
Grade Ambient operating temperature range
  0 -40°C to +150°C
  1 -40°C to +125°C
  2 -40°C to +105°C
  3 -40°C to +85°C

Passives are usually qualified under AEC-Q200
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2022, 04:23:17 pm »
If you really want something that is AEC-Q100 compliant, forget about the cheap SBCs.

You could consider something like this: https://www.forlinx.net/single-board-computer/t507-single-board-computer-117.html

But of course, since we don't know what you actually want to do, I'm just assuming AEC-Q100 is what you need, since you said so. Others have suggested you might not need that at all. I dunno.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2022, 05:03:14 pm »
From a Linux integrators perspective, Olimex' OLinuXino boards, being OSHW and having support in upstream Linux kernels (as opposed to vendor-specific forks) are very nice; currently, the Olimage images Olimex provides for these boards are just pre-configured Debian 11 "Bullseye" images (which is nice).  For example, STMP157-OLinuXino-LIME2H-IND is designed for automotive applications, has a -45°C to +85°C operating range.

As to the hardware (and its ruggedness wrt. vibration and such), I wouldn't know; I'm just a hobbyist in that front.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2022, 06:11:18 pm »
what's wrong with intel/amd ? they have aec-q processors.
you will need thermal management though. cooling AND heating.
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2022, 05:16:07 am »
...
you will need thermal management though. cooling AND heating.

How do you do thermal management while the car is sitting in a parking lot baking/freezing?  That seems to be the worst case.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2022, 01:23:54 pm »
...
you will need thermal management though. cooling AND heating.

How do you do thermal management while the car is sitting in a parking lot baking/freezing?  That seems to be the worst case.
you run the system if it is cold. the board enclosure may have a header on board. for cooling : tap into the airconditioning system run the heatpump. You may need a local system if the car doesn't have those abilities. it's 2022. we don't live in a time where the top technology was a Trabant. You can't stick such technology in a 20 year old car.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 01:26:02 pm by free_electron »
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Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2022, 05:07:39 pm »
As an aftermarket product I'm pretty sure I don't really have access to those systems.   And 20-40 year old vehicles without infotainment is a part of the market. 
I know I'm just being difficult, but the automotive temp ranges make it difficult. 

I wonder what the failure modes for the processor are for the two temp extremes?
Cold = clock won't start?
Hot = clocks run too fast? 

 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2022, 05:38:34 pm »
I'd look at stuff form NXP. AFAIK the iMX8 for exists in automotive temperature range.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2022, 05:59:38 pm »
I'd look at stuff form NXP. AFAIK the iMX8 for exists in automotive temperature range.

Ya.  NXP advertises those parts for automotive infotainment: https://www.nxp.com/design/development-boards/i-mx-evaluation-and-development-boards/sabre-for-automotive-infotainment-based-on-the-i-mx-6-series-for-automotive-avb-development:SABRE-AUTO-IMX6-RD2

and

https://www.nxp.com/design/software/embedded-software/i-mx-software/android-automotive-os-for-i-mx-applications-processors:ANDROID-AUTO

It's funny they don't list as a banner spec the increased temp range.  You would hope anyone wanting to play in that space would appreciate that as something special.
 

Offline SmokeyTopic starter

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2022, 02:26:52 am »
It seems like to have good low temperature mitigation you would want an insulated enclosure to keep the heat in.
But for good high temperature mitigation you would want a good conductive heatsink to ambient to get the heat out. 

Talk about conflicting design requirements.....
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2022, 03:04:07 am »
 :Some designs use bimetallic strips to break thermal paths under the desired conditions.  It adds complexity, but can partly resolve conflicting requirements.  Waxes with appropriate melting points can also help.
 
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Online Marco

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2022, 05:07:52 pm »
Most cars aren't designed for low enough temperatures that it would really matter. I'm sure that in some places in Siberia electrolytics will go wonky, but ehh ... don't go there.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2022, 06:08:18 pm »
Most cars aren't designed for low enough temperatures that it would really matter. I'm sure that in some places in Siberia electrolytics will go wonky, but ehh ... don't go there.

Oh really. Ever been to Canada?
 

Online Marco

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Re: Automotive qualified, Linux/Android ready embedded platforms??......
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2022, 06:33:31 pm »
No, but when automotive qualified isn't enough (ie. under -40C). Oh well, shit happens.

Especially for infotainment, who cares if the car radio can come on.
 


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