Author Topic: Superglue to build air coil?  (Read 730 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ricko_ukTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1050
  • Country: gb
Superglue to build air coil?
« on: June 19, 2024, 07:23:26 pm »
Hi,
planning to build a few air core coils with 0.2mm enameled magnet wire. Because of the dimensions (40mm length, 15mm ID and 20 layers) and the thin wire (and preferably no supporting core) I need the wire itself to provide structure/strength to maintain its shape.

What is the best/easiest way to make them?

Also what is the best way to keep the wires in place as I wind them? I was thinking about a line of superglue every few mm (along the solenoid length). But not sure if it chemically melts or affect the enamel?

There will be almost no current through it so operating temperature is not an issue.

I know I can buy wire with glue that can be heated but not sure I could keep the heat constant without damaging the wire (I remember that happened when I tried once years ago).

Thank you
« Last Edit: June 19, 2024, 07:28:16 pm by ricko_uk »
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21994
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2024, 08:16:49 pm »
Superglue is fine. I haven't seen it affect enamel, myself.

I would suggest, use just enough that it wicks into the turns, but leaves lots of free space to later get varnish or something in there to more permanently secure it.

You may find it useful to use tape anyway, if nothing else just to hold the former and cheeks in place, and secure layers, before soaking the whole thing in something, or using self-bonding wire (if resistive heating isn't well enough controlled, just stick it in the oven).  Jig parts made of Teflon or PP, or something shiny and non-stick anyway, will be helpful.  Preferably with some way to release the form, like a few wraps of sheet around a cylinder, maybe even a split cylinder held in with shims.

For example, I have some PET film that epoxy doesn't stick worth a damn to, it peels off very easily.  That would make a nice form, or wrapped around one, and then some way to anchor the cheeks.  End plates like washers, with a bolt through the stack to hold it together, is a good way to make a winding arbor.  Helps greatly to have a machine shop to make custom sized parts, but some adjustability can still be had while using relatively few parts.

Epoxy by the way, can be used like varnish if it's thinned -- it might not soak in well otherwise, but with a little solvent, or I would say preferably just by heating it -- the slower-cure types get pretty flowable, and for more than long enough to soak into things and for bubbles to move out. (Vacuum impregnation is always best though.)

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Online KE5FX

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1967
  • Country: us
    • KE5FX.COM
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2024, 09:12:45 pm »
I'm sure you can't get it in the UK anymore, and probably not here either, but there used to be a cement made just for this purpose called "Q Dope."  It was basically polystyrene dissolved in toluene IIRC.

Nowadays I use UV glue with a blue laser pointer and/or UV flashlight.  The stuff sold by JB Weld is absolutely superb.  It has some cyanoacrylate mixed in to allow it to set eventually in areas not reached by the light, a big drawback of other UV-cured glues.  You will not mess with traditional "super glue" after trying this.
 
The following users thanked this post: sab

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8960
  • Country: gb
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2024, 09:20:23 pm »
Nowadays I use UV glue with a blue laser pointer and/or UV flashlight.  The stuff sold by JB Weld is absolutely superb.  It has some cyanoacrylate mixed in to allow it to set eventually in areas not reached by the light, a big drawback of other UV-cured glues.  You will not mess with traditional "super glue" after trying this.
UV glue has been the go to approach for things like this since it was launched. Watch out for the cyanoacrylate types, though. They usually have a very low melting point.
 

Online TimFox

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8086
  • Country: us
  • Retired, now restoring antique test equipment
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2024, 09:40:49 pm »
“Q Dope”, made by GC Electronics, is readily available in the US in 2 fl oz bottles.
The solvent is listed on the MSDS as MEK, which may well be banned elsewhere.
I found a statement that it is banned in parts of California, but I don’t know its status in UK and EU.
It certainly requires care with ventilation, etc.
It is a traditional material to make RF inductors due to the very low dielectric loss of the solute polystyrene; the solvent is very volatile and disappears quickly (perhaps up your nose—be careful).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2024, 09:44:27 pm by TimFox »
 
The following users thanked this post: Ian.M

Offline jonpaul

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3492
  • Country: fr
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2024, 07:42:40 am »
 

There is a self bonding wire for speaker voice coils but costly
https://mwswire.com/magnet-wire/bondable-magnet-wire/

Just usa a coil form, any insulating tube of desired diameter, plastic, even cardboard.
Wind and varnish.

Suggest to avoid Cyanoacrylate glue, except for tiny spot fixing.

Large arreas of curing Cyaniacrylate can cause alergies.

Jon
Jean-Paul  the Internet Dinosaur
 

Online mawyatt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3548
  • Country: us
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2024, 11:34:41 am »
In a pinch maybe consider Finger Nail Polish, it comes in clear and various colors. It's based upon dissolved nitrocellulose but have never seen my wife's fingers explode  :-DD

Best,
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 

Offline ricko_ukTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1050
  • Country: gb
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2024, 12:53:42 pm »
Thank you all for the info!

Some of you mentioned varnish, any particular spec? I am thinking perhaps some that is very thin/liquid to make sure it goes into all small areas?

Also, if I use a core, what material should it be made of - or coated with - to avoid the varnish to stick to it (so I can slide the core out afterwards)?

Thank you
 

Online Doctorandus_P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3567
  • Country: nl
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2024, 01:15:27 pm »
For making the coil, my first thoughts would be to use some round object (drill, toiled paper carton, whatever), then add some plastic foil that does not stick to the glue you use, then wrap your wire around it and glue it in place.

Maybe cyanoacrylate does not stick to silicone backed paper.
I have also had success (for other glue) with paper saturated with Vaseline (petroleum jelly).
 

Offline jonpaul

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3492
  • Country: fr
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2024, 01:27:51 pm »
diameter? Legnth? Voltage? Current? Frequency min/max?

j
Jean-Paul  the Internet Dinosaur
 

Online HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5504
  • Country: de
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2024, 01:33:56 pm »
Superglue is totally ok for this purpose, I have done it many times. Just make sure to use a good quality super glue, there are big differences.

I used cheap superglue on a big winding prototype that was potted in polyurethane later. The cheap superglue degassed and caused problems in the insulation. Then we changed it to a high quality superglue and it worked perfectly.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline croma641

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 46
  • Country: it
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2024, 02:31:27 pm »


 

 

Online KE5FX

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1967
  • Country: us
    • KE5FX.COM
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2024, 03:18:32 pm »
Interesting.  TIL that polystyrene peanuts are 1% polystyrene, 99% air, and 99.5% profit.
 

Offline ricko_ukTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1050
  • Country: gb
Re: Superglue to build air coil?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2024, 08:51:44 pm »
Thank you all
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf