EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: Aiy on August 09, 2023, 08:44:16 pm

Title: Backup of M-Systems DiskOnChip flash with Minipro
Post by: Aiy on August 09, 2023, 08:44:16 pm
Hi Everyone,
Just as the topic subject suggests, I'd like to backup an old flash by M-Systems.
The IC is a DiskOnChip MD-2800-D08 - 8MB Single Chip Flash Disk. Datasheet: https://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/51460/DiskOnChip_Mil._DS_Rev2.1.pdf (https://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/51460/DiskOnChip_Mil._DS_Rev2.1.pdf)

The datasheet states that it is "Compatible with standard EEPROM pin-out", so I thought it is an excellent candidate for me to get myself a Minipro TL866 and back it up, and perhaps obtain a replacement in case the flash should fail (might as well tape it to the inside of the machine for safe keeping).

Although, I've not been able to find the IC on any compatibility list for the Minipro.

Does anybody have any experience with reading / writing these chips?

Best regards,
AIY
Title: Re: Backup of M-Systems DiskOnChip flash with Minipro
Post by: coromonadalix on August 09, 2023, 09:13:43 pm
some infos ?

http://www.digital-circuitry.com/MyLAB_IC_PROG_DISKONCHIP.htm (http://www.digital-circuitry.com/MyLAB_IC_PROG_DISKONCHIP.htm)

https://hackaday.com/2018/03/30/a-retrocomputer-disk-on-a-chip/ (https://hackaday.com/2018/03/30/a-retrocomputer-disk-on-a-chip/)

https://digicoolthings.com/eprom-programmer-adapter-for-27c400800160-and-27c322-16bit-eproms/ (https://digicoolthings.com/eprom-programmer-adapter-for-27c400800160-and-27c322-16bit-eproms/)

last link explanation
TL866 support 27C4096 4Mb (JEDEC pin-out) EPROM. Programming is completed in 4Mb banks

Meaning the maximum size for the tl866 is 4mb, without an adapter, you will need an programmer who go beyond those 4mb


a project here
https://mousebitelabs.com/2019/09/02/27c322-160-programming-adapter/ (https://mousebitelabs.com/2019/09/02/27c322-160-programming-adapter/)

and finally
https://github.com/mafe72/27c160-tl866-adapter (https://github.com/mafe72/27c160-tl866-adapter)
Title: Re: Backup of M-Systems DiskOnChip flash with Minipro
Post by: amyk on August 10, 2023, 04:33:11 am
This is not a regular flash/EEPROM, and as its name implies, it's more like an SSD, and by virtue of appearing as an MMIO peripheral to the host system, is actually similar to an NVMe SSD in principle. Thus regular multi-chip programmers like the '866 are unlikely to be able to read and write to it. That said, the first link above has plenty of documentation and software to be able to come up with something on your own.
Title: Re: Backup of M-Systems DiskOnChip flash with Minipro
Post by: coromonadalix on August 10, 2023, 11:42:31 am
if it really act as an hdd drive, you should be able to copy the contents ??

is it an embedded computer ?

or something else with this chip on it ?
Title: Re: Backup of M-Systems DiskOnChip flash with Minipro
Post by: Shonky on August 10, 2023, 09:49:17 pm
if it really act as an hdd drive, you should be able to copy the contents ??

is it an embedded computer ?

or something else with this chip on it ?
It's not a hard drive and it's not a regular memory device.

Most of the links you posted are based around adapters to overcome the number of pins available on the programmer. Otherwise those devices are just big "regular" memory devices.

These things appear more like 8kB memory devices. They only have 13 address lines and 8 data lines. A TL866/T48/T56 hardware wise would be perfectly capable of reading and programming them.

So there's a 8kB window a programmer can see. And a regular programmer could probably read that as is - it's likely compatible with a smaller device. To read/write the whole device though, commands need to be sent to move the window around.

Title: Re: Backup of M-Systems DiskOnChip flash with Minipro
Post by: coromonadalix on August 11, 2023, 12:20:04 pm
i think you meant 8 meg  not 8 k   devices ???

tl866 can't go higher than 4mb devices,  havent seen  bigger model on v6.85  i have, i have ordered  some Ebay adapters of one of the previous links
Title: Re: Backup of M-Systems DiskOnChip flash with Minipro
Post by: amyk on August 11, 2023, 01:41:27 pm
It's connected to the host system in the same way as 8k of memory. However, that 8k range is occupied by a data window and controller registers.
Title: Re: Backup of M-Systems DiskOnChip flash with Minipro
Post by: Shonky on August 11, 2023, 09:54:41 pm
i think you meant 8 meg  not 8 k   devices ???

tl866 can't go higher than 4mb devices,  havent seen  bigger model on v6.85  i have, i have ordered  some Ebay adapters of one of the previous links
No I mean an 8kB *window* like I said. You can't see the whole device at once. There are only 13 address lines ie 8kB.

TL866 can go bigger with those adapters. You just read the devices in multiple banks with multiple read and those adapters allow that.

With all due respect you should try and read some of the links you found on Google before you comment.