Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
Batteroo testing
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samgab:
Frank: If you have a quality rechargeable Low Self Discharge Ni-MH AAA cell, like an eneloop lying around at your home, would it be possible to fully charge it and chuck it in the train and see how long it runs for (how long and how many laps)?

Just as a side comparison: (I would strongly advocate to potential buyers of batteroo, to instead take that money and invest it in a charger and a set of eneloops instead, which can last many hundreds of recharge cycles and are much more effective in most applications these days than Alkaline primaries. So they save money in the long run, they save the environment, and they work better. No brainer, especially as now with modern LSD types, self discharge isn't the problem it used to be with Ni-MH cells.)

Edit: Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with BRB - Big Rechargeable Battery!
djos:
I have a charger at home that can recharge alkaline batteries about 10 times each. Cost me less than a stack of Batteroo's.
Brumby:

--- Quote from: Fungus on December 21, 2016, 02:43:31 pm ---I'm bothered by a lot of these tests.

eg. The train. If the train goes around the track faster with batteroo then they can declare it a "win" even if it only lasts half as long.

A better test might be "How many times does it go around the track?" and totally ignore the overall running time. It's less correct technically but I really think that "number of times around the track" would be a better set of numbers to show the public.

--- End quote ---

I believe we should consider any and all possible measuring sticks when doing these tests - and publish the lot of them.  If one of those shows a benefit for Batteroo, then publish it.  It's better to include all results so that the tester cannot be accused of being biased - and have that accusation proved by taking the tester's own data and using it against them.  If there is one, you might find that the metric which shines in favour of Batteroo is measuring something that people don't really care about.

By publishing all the metrics, you get a much more persuasive message, especially when they all point in the same direction.  Here's an example:

--- Quote from: samgab on December 22, 2016, 06:46:25 pm ---Train Test:

Another way to look at the results of this excellent train test is by means of WORK DONE, rather than time of operation.
So, we can view one complete lap or circuit of the track as being ONE unit of work.
Fresh Bare cell: 613 laps.
Fresh cell with Batteroo: 290 laps.
The cell from test one, after being allowed an hour to recover, went on to do another 17 laps with the batteroo on. (I contend that the extra 17 laps were from the cell's natural recovery over one hour rather than any gain from the batteroo sleeve, but hey, without this having been tested in this instance, we'll give batteroo the benefit of the doubt for now.)

Interestingly, regarding the RATE of work done, in the first 58 minutes and 35 seconds, the bare cell test completed 314 laps, while the batteroo'd train completed its 290 laps. So it didn't even increase the output.
Batteroo decreased the RATE of operation, the TIME PERIOD of operation, and the AMOUNT of work done. Fail on every measurable metric.


--- End quote ---

I reckon that is the way to go.  :-+
SL4P:

--- Quote from: samgab on December 22, 2016, 07:28:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: quad on December 22, 2016, 06:58:53 pm ---Awesome breakdown samgab!  :-+

How did you count the number of laps?

--- End quote ---

Err, well, I'm a nerd with a bit of time on my hands just at the moment and not enough sleep; so I used one of those clicker counter things, and just watched the video and clicked it each time the train completed a lap...  :-[  Cheers though!

--- End quote ---
Glad you did that, as i was going to ask if anyone does another mechanical test - for them to count the number of operational cycles as part of the result.  Also possibly graphed over time, as the sleeved battery appeared to start off with more gusto (although it may have been an illusion of the video size differences)
FrankBuss:
The sleeve with the broken clips at the plus terminal didn't work anymore, maybe I broke the PCB or something, it is very brittle. But I managed to remove the metal to the minus terminal and the red plastic on top of the PCB:



I measured the caps in place, so could be wrong, but it says 14 uF, for both pairs, so 7 uF each cap (seems to be parallel). The inductor is 2.2 uH, if the in place measurement is right.

The chip has some label, really hard to read it:



Looks like it says "B041" and date code 1629.

And some more train tests: I did close the lid, this should be heavier than the Batteroo sleeve, and tried it again. But I ran out of Energizer batteries, so I used a Duracell. And looks like the bunny ads are true :) With the Duracell and without the sleeve, it runs for 195 minutes now, instead of 127. But there are different types of the Energizer batteries, maybe this is a type which lasts longer for lower discharge currents.

Then I used a fresh Duracell battery with the Batteroo sleeve, and the train was running for 115 minutes.

Meanwhile the first battery has recovered and I tried it without the Batteroo sleeve. It was running for 7 additional minutes! Of course, this can't be compared because of the longer recovery time and the different battery type, but I guess it will be not much different for the Energizer battery. This means the Batteroo sleeve has no positive effect at all for this train, not even the 3%, because without the sleeve most probably it would have run longer (but maybe a bit slower).

Ok, before I break the second sleeve, too, I'll send it to the next tester, @Ysjoelfir . He might be able to test it with professional EMC and ESD equipment. Was a fun project.
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