Author Topic: Op Amp integrator automatic amplitude/frequency correction  (Read 2911 times)

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Offline cteffectsTopic starter

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Hey all! I'm designing an analog music synthesizer, and I'm using standard multistage Op Amp Integration to generate triangle waves and "sine" waves from a square wave input. However there is naturally an inverse relationship between amplitude with respect to frequency. Does anyone have any ideas how I could compensate? I would ideally like to make the output as linear as possible over the audible frequency range.
 

Offline acbern

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Re: Op Amp integrator automatic amplitude/frequency correction
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2015, 11:00:28 am »
if you use fast and high input impedance opamps you should not have that problem. low impedance designs also help in general.
other than that, it would hep if you were more specific re. your exact problem (schematics, parts selected...).
 

Offline sync

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Re: Op Amp integrator automatic amplitude/frequency correction
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2015, 11:43:51 am »
Is it a classic subtractive synthesizer? They usually using sawtooth oscillators from which are other waveforms are made. Starting from a square wave makes it more difficult.
 

Offline rs20

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Re: Op Amp integrator automatic amplitude/frequency correction
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2015, 11:54:53 am »
if you use fast and high input impedance opamps you should not have that problem.

??? Ideal integration causes amplitude (& frequency) changes when the input frequency changes.
 

Offline cteffectsTopic starter

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Re: Op Amp integrator automatic amplitude/frequency correction
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2015, 01:50:58 pm »
Is it a classic subtractive synthesizer? They usually using sawtooth oscillators from which are other waveforms are made. Starting from a square wave makes it more difficult.
No, it's just a simple 4x waveform generator going from Sawtooth > Square > Triangle > "Sine" (really a piecewise quadratic curve). Sawtooth to square is trivial since I can just use a comparator on it with respect to ground, but as soon as I start integrating, things get hairy. Since, like the above post says, even ideal mathematical integration produces amplitude changes with respect to frequency.
 

Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Op Amp integrator automatic amplitude/frequency correction
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2015, 01:55:45 pm »
Yes, you want to *start with* the triangle wave.  You can always make a square later, via nonlinear process (comparator).  That is, you'd never make a square by differentiating the triangle, that'd be silly.  But you have a whole lot harder time making a triangle from a square, without using some bizarre compensated integrator.

If you absolutely must (e.g., to sync with an external clock), you might be better off with:
a. Triangle oscillator, PLL locked to source
b. Integrator with peak amplitude detection, OTA controlled gain (amplitude locked loop, I guess you could say)

They're more-or-less equivalent because of the direct ratio (frequency and voltage being proportional), which should have interesting consequences actually, as a PLL is generally considered more complex than a mere integrator and gain stage.  Or conversely... the amplitude loop should be as complex as the PLL, since after all, it's trying to regulate on a widely variable signal, so the compensation will never be perfectly well defined.

Tim
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Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Op Amp integrator automatic amplitude/frequency correction
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 01:56:50 pm »
Is it a classic subtractive synthesizer? They usually using sawtooth oscillators from which are other waveforms are made. Starting from a square wave makes it more difficult.
No, it's just a simple 4x waveform generator going from Sawtooth > Square ...

Aha, invert half the sawtooth.  Problem solved!
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Offline sync

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Re: Op Amp integrator automatic amplitude/frequency correction
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 02:11:16 pm »
No, it's just a simple 4x waveform generator going from Sawtooth > Square > Triangle > "Sine" (really a piecewise quadratic curve). Sawtooth to square is trivial since I can just use a comparator on it with respect to ground, but as soon as I start integrating, things get hairy. Since, like the above post says, even ideal mathematical integration produces amplitude changes with respect to frequency.
You don't need an integrator.
Saw to square/rectangle: comparator
Saw to triangle: full wave rectifier
Triangle to sine: sine shaper.
But on a subtractive synth a sine wave is fairly useless. I think I never saw a sine wave VCO on a synth. Only for LFOs.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 02:29:39 pm by sync »
 


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