Best printer for toner transfer

[rfguy2020]

Huh? Your final question is basically “does anyone know what kind of printer that non-printer uses?”

The plate maker is the specialized printer. But it doesn’t print on paper, it produces printing plates used in a printing press to make large print runs.

Ok. The plate maker printer does not sound to be option. I was able to get backup printer for my Samsung this weekend. I bought another second hand SCX-3205 printer, so it won't be major catastrophe, if my old printer from 2011 decide to retire. This is not ideal solution, but better than nothing.

[JeanF]

Hi everyone,

I just bought a HP laserjet 2300, following recommendations from Pulsar paper website, and SilverSolder here. 

SilverSolder, would you mind sharing here the specific Samsung driver that you use for best results with this printer, please? Also, thanks for your test pages, I'll be using these.

What OS are you using with this printer? Is there some clever tweaking or file editing needed to make your Samsung driver work with the HP hardware or does it just work by doing right-click and "update driver" from within Device Manager in Windows? I use Windows 8.1.

Thank you!

[SilverSolder]

Congratulations with your new-to-you purchase!

The files are too big to attach in the forum.  The driver I use is the HP PCL v6 one, and I am using it on Windows 7 64 bit.  Available here:

https://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/DR/201106/20110607150014918/PCL-2570.exe



There are other drivers including Postscript versions linked from this page:

https://www.driver-samsung.net/2018/09/samsung-ml-2570-driver-for-windows.html
[Edit:] This is not an official Samsung page and I can't vouch for what you'll find there

For what it's worth, I use the PCL driver because you might expect a HP printer to have excellent support for that.

I don't know anything about Windows 8,  but on Windows 7 I just ran the install file linked above and everything worked.

[JeanF]

Thank you very much! I've been playing around a little bit but I didn't try to transfer anything yet. But I'm having a hard time with drivers... (both HP and Samsung)

I'm using Windows 8.1. When I connect the printer for the first time, Windows installs a Microsoft version of a PCL6 driver. It prints fine but I don't have any control; printer "properties" are limited to the bare minimum: only color / B&W (which on this printer is amusing), portrait/landscape, paper size and that's all.

Then I can of course install HP drivers from this page, that is, either PCL or PS version of their "universal print driver". Apparently they don't provide the custom driver (which they call "full solution") for this specific model, or at least not anymore.

Here is the 1st problem : in "print quality" dialog, 1200 dpi (or ProRes 1200) is not available. The only choices are 600dpi, as well as a range of HP "custom" settings which are all 600dpi with various interpolations : FastRes 1200; ImageRet3600, General Office, Professional, Presentation.

The 2nd problem is that all these "quality" settings don't seem to make any difference in the final print, and all of these give worse results than with the Microsoft basic driver. I checked with naked eye and with a USB microscope. The edges of any black lines or shapes are all slightly crenelated. At least they are not as fuzzy as they are with the PostScript driver, but still not great.

It seems that HP's "universal" driver doesn't support "true" 1200dpi. At least I've found two forum threads were people had the same problem : (1) and (2).

I downloaded the Samsung driver upon your suggestion, but sadly I couldn't use this Samsung driver myself on Windows 8.1. If I run the standalone installer, the Samsung utility doesn't detect the printer. And if I manually unzip the Samsung drivers somewhere, and then I manually update the drivers from the Device Manager, then the drivers are installed, and when I click "printer properties" for the HP 2300 printer I get the Samsung version of the window (which is good) ; but then it won't print anything; an error message "There's an error, the printer couldn't print..." each time I try to print something.

So, before I go through the hassle of setting up virtual machines to redo my tests on older Windows versions, would anyone please tell me if you have any suggestions? I'd be glad to hear. Does anyone happen to have a copy (if they ever existed) of "full feature drivers" from HP for this model? (HP LaserJet 2300). And if so, for which versions of Windows?

Maybe I can just use the standard Microsoft driver, because it works OK, but it is a bit disappointing to be forced to give up on all the detailed controls that the official HP driver is supposed to offer.

Thank you very much for your help! I've also emailed Pulsar, because they seem to be regular users of this printer. I'll report back here if I get a reply

[SilverSolder]

I know how you feel - I spent many hours on this, because HP decided to drop ProRes 1200 from their drivers after Windows XP.  Planned obsolescence, basically.


Is there any way of running the driver in Windows 7 compatibility mode, or anything like that?


I was never able to get the HP Universal Driver to give the ProRes funcionality.

However, I did find another HP printer driver that works for the 2300, and supports ProRes 1200:   it is the driver for the LaserJet 1320 PCL6.

I don't know if it will work on Win 8, but it might?  Also, there are some differences between the two printers, so anomalies may occur - but I am able to print with it no problems.

The Samsung driver is the easiest to use - no BS, it "just works" (on Win 7).

[RoGeorge]

Install Windows XP in a virtual machine (to create one, use either VirtualBox or VMware Player, both free), then install the driver you want inside the WinXP virtual machine.

[JeanF]

That's a solution that I wanted to avoid at first, but I'm currently playing around with just that, VMware player and XP.

There is indeed a "full" (ie not universal) driver for the HP 2300 for XP. I should have checked more carefully the HP downloads page!

But it seems that I can't just share the printer from the guest system (XP) to the host (W8.1), because when I try to "add a new printer" on the host and select the printer shared by XP, W8.1 says that it still needs a driver on the host too...

So if I want to print using a printer that has its driver installed in a VM, I think there's no other choice than exporting to PDF from the host, copying files to the VM and then printing from a PDF reader installed on the VM? That's doable but a bit more convoluted than I'd like. Or am I missing something?

[RoGeorge]

It should work either without any driver or with any other "incomplete" driver in the host (real) machine.  The guest (virtual) machine won't see the printer attached to the host unless you attach the printer to the guest, from the VMware settings of your XP guest machine.  Do not share the printer between the two guest/host, give the printer to the guest XP only.

If it doesn't work, try VirtualBox, it has way more settings.

Also, no matter which one you use, either VMware or VirtualBox, install the extra add-on/enhancement (don't remember how they are called).  Once you install the extra package both in the guest and the host machines, you should be able to copy/paste from one desktop to another.  CTRL-C your file, CTRL-V in XP, then print from XP.

There are further way to simplify this, by sharing folders between the machine, or integrating the two like it would be one desktop, but this will only add confusion, so just use copy/paste and print from XP at first.

[tooki]

That's a solution that I wanted to avoid at first, but I'm currently playing around with just that, VMware player and XP.

There is indeed a "full" (ie not universal) driver for the HP 2300 for XP. I should have checked more carefully the HP downloads page!

But it seems that I can't just share the printer from the guest system (XP) to the host (W8.1), because when I try to "add a new printer" on the host and select the printer shared by XP, W8.1 says that it still needs a driver on the host too...

So if I want to print using a printer that has its driver installed in a VM, I think there's no other choice than exporting to PDF from the host, copying files to the VM and then printing from a PDF reader installed on the VM? That's doable but a bit more convoluted than I'd like. Or am I missing something?

No, that’s how it is. Printer sharing just shares the interface, it doesn’t have anything to do with the page description language and the driver.

Man do I wish this weren’t the case, since my workhorse printer (a 2008 inkjet) is not supported under newer OSes, either...

I know that ages ago, one could configure a CUPS/ghostprint server that would present itself as a shared PostScript printer, thus allowing any old OS to print to it using generic PostScript drivers. But I’ve long since forgotten how to do it.

[SilverSolder]

The way I work around this, is to print to a PDF file (Print To PDF) from whatever application needs to print on the "special" printer.   Then I pick that PDF up in the virtual machine (or on a separate machine) and print from there.  That way, you don't have to install all the applications in every machine - you just need a way to print PDF.   The format supports very high resolution so there is no quality loss this way.

Now, all you need is for the VM to share a directory on the host machine, it is easy to transfer PDFs that way.

[kile]

I have the same dilemma. I want to buy a new printer that I will use for printing, but also for toner transfer PCBs. Is there anyone who bought a new printer (current model) in the last year or so, and successfully used it for iron/laminator toner transfer? I don't need more that 10mil precision.

Thank you very much!

[moffy]

Yes, the Kyocera Ecosys P2040dw printer. Incredibly cheap toner refills. Only thing to watch out for is that for pcb toner transfer you need to set the 'print density'  in the menu of the printer from the default of 3 to 5. Have a look at my forum entry: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/need-laminator-recommendations-for-toner-transfer/

[Halcyon]

After my little printer died (whose output was surprisingly good, producing much better transfers than any of the printers at work), I needed a new one. I had a big dilemma, but I finally chose to buy hp envy 4520, after reading many positive reviews on the Internet about it. Because it was new and I didn't know how it works, I had some problems with it, but one of my friends suggested this hp envy 4520 setup which helped me a lot. Now, it works perfectly, more than I expected to be honest.

Why don't you explain to us all what your "big dilemma" was.

BTW, suspected spambot/AI being watched by mods.

[SilverSolder]

My dilemma was that I didn't know which printer to buy.

I had a certain budget and I wanted to buy a good one for my work.

What kind of PCBs are you making with that printer - what is the smallest track size?

[kile]

I bought a HP Neverstop Laser MFP 1200 a few months ago, and now I have tried to make PCBs with it. And all I can say is: success!! 
I haven't toner transfered PCBs in a few years, but with the new EU regulations about import fees, and the fact that I need to make a few low-resolution THT PCBs, I decided to try it out with this printer. So I took an old leftover piece of the blue Press-n-Peel foil, a PCB image from my last Fab-ed design, and made an experiment.
I am a bit rusty with this, so I made a few mistakes: the iron was too hot, and I held it down too long, so there is some smudging on one edge. But none of the traces seem to be broken (12 mils is my thinnest trace here), and while I can see that some neighbouring traces would short, that can be easily fixed with larger spacing in the DRC.

Please note that I have never tried toner transfer with shiny newspapers or any other kind of paper. I have only ever used the blue Press-n-Peel foil, so I have no idea if paper transfer would work. But this does and I am happy!

[SilverSolder]

I bought a HP Neverstop Laser MFP 1200 a few months ago, and now I have tried to make PCBs with it. And all I can say is: success!! 
I haven't toner transfered PCBs in a few years, but with the new EU regulations about import fees, and the fact that I need to make a few low-resolution THT PCBs, I decided to try it out with this printer. So I took an old leftover piece of the blue Press-n-Peel foil, a PCB image from my last Fab-ed design, and made an experiment.
I am a bit rusty with this, so I made a few mistakes: the iron was too hot, and I held it down too long, so there is some smudging on one edge. But none of the traces seem to be broken (12 mils is my thinnest trace here), and while I can see that some neighbouring traces would short, that can be easily fixed with larger spacing in the DRC.

Please note that I have never tried toner transfer with shiny newspapers or any other kind of paper. I have only ever used the blue Press-n-Peel foil, so I have no idea if paper transfer would work. But this does and I am happy!

That's a nice dark, deep black over the ground plane areas! Looks much better than I've seen from a laser before.  Looks like HP has improved the technology with this generation of printers!

[tooki]

I bought a HP Neverstop Laser MFP 1200 a few months ago, and now I have tried to make PCBs with it. And all I can say is: success!! 
I haven't toner transfered PCBs in a few years, but with the new EU regulations about import fees, and the fact that I need to make a few low-resolution THT PCBs, I decided to try it out with this printer. So I took an old leftover piece of the blue Press-n-Peel foil, a PCB image from my last Fab-ed design, and made an experiment.
I am a bit rusty with this, so I made a few mistakes: the iron was too hot, and I held it down too long, so there is some smudging on one edge. But none of the traces seem to be broken (12 mils is my thinnest trace here), and while I can see that some neighbouring traces would short, that can be easily fixed with larger spacing in the DRC.

Please note that I have never tried toner transfer with shiny newspapers or any other kind of paper. I have only ever used the blue Press-n-Peel foil, so I have no idea if paper transfer would work. But this does and I am happy!

I’m actually not surprised: HP’s lasers are now homegrown, thanks to their acquisition of Samsung’s printer division some years ago. And the (now dead) Samsung laser printer I had produced hands-down the best toner transfers I’ve managed so far.

[ogden]

Every time someone asks for toner transfer, I suggest inkjet pigment printer and (silkscreen) transparencies, presensitized PCB and low cost "nail UV lamp". Toner transfer is full of "what is best for", "how do I", then trial and errors to find that "it still depends". Seeing definition you can get with UV resist and low defect rate - you will come back to thank me. Note that you need only black ink to be pigment type, CMY can be dye.

[edit] Those who already got PCB's for toner transfer - buy photoresist film to make "presensitized PCB" yourself.

[SilverSolder]

Every time someone asks for toner transfer, I suggest inkjet pigment printer and (silkscreen) transparencies, presensitized PCB and low cost "nail UV lamp". Toner transfer is full of "what is best for", "how do I", then trial and errors to find that "it still depends". Seeing definition you can get with UV resist and low defect rate - you will come back to thank me. Note that you need only black ink to be pigment type, CMY can be dye.

[edit] Those who already got PCB's for toner transfer - buy photoresist film to make "presensitized PCB" yourself.

I do both methods - I agree with you that the transparency method is better, but the toner transfer method also works very well after you've honed it in!

[cdev]

Before I printg the toner onto trhe PCB material I use s scour pad to brade it really well. (Scotch lite)  This vastly increases the ability of the toner to fully coat the copper, increasing the amont that is etched away by an order of magnitude.  Just as I was getting the best results I have to date my printer seems to have developed some kind of logic problem.

Which really sucks because I have lots of toner and paper for it right now.  Its a workhorse generic Samsung ML-1210. It was a great deal for around $150 originally. Its been serving me well for around three years.

[Elrico972]

Hello to all I hope the subject is not too old and that some of you can help me. I want to make my own pcb's using the toner transfer method but all the printers that are recommended are discontinued (or cartridges are not available). Are there any recent models of printers that work with toner transfer method? I would be so happy if someone could help me because this research is definitely a pain.

[DavidKo]

My experience with toner transfer was quite poor - HP LJ2300. I used it in combination with OHP pen to improve covering. Still had issues.

My final solution was to print on the OHP foil in professional copy center (it had better quality compared with my home print) and use FR4 with photo resist.

[tooki]

My experience with a cheap Samsung was great. But Samsung sold its printer business to HP (who bought it in order to reduce its dependence on Canon for print engines), and it was recently announced that HP is moving back to Canon engines for its cheap printers. (The expensive ones stayed Canon all along.) So I guess the chances of getting a Samsung-based laser are now definitively over.

My main inkjet printer is dying (after 15 years!!!) so I'm starting to shop around for probably a color laser. If/when I get one, I'll try it out for toner transfer.

[Elrico972]

After some research, I am now hesitating between two models:
1 - HP LaserJet Tank HP 2504dw: I read that HP printer toners were effective and Kile bought an HP Neverstop which gave an excellent result. Unfortunately it seems discontinued but the LaserJet Tank line seems to have the same refillable toner technology.

I bought a HP Neverstop Laser MFP 1200 a few months ago, and now I have tried to make PCBs with it. And all I can say is: success!! 
I haven't toner transfered PCBs in a few years, but with the new EU regulations about import fees, and the fact that I need to make a few low-resolution THT PCBs, I decided to try it out with this printer. So I took an old leftover piece of the blue Press-n-Peel foil, a PCB image from my last Fab-ed design, and made an experiment.
I am a bit rusty with this, so I made a few mistakes: the iron was too hot, and I held it down too long, so there is some smudging on one edge. But none of the traces seem to be broken (12 mils is my thinnest trace here), and while I can see that some neighbouring traces would short, that can be easily fixed with larger spacing in the DRC.

Please note that I have never tried toner transfer with shiny newspapers or any other kind of paper. I have only ever used the blue Press-n-Peel foil, so I have no idea if paper transfer would work. But this does and I am happy!

2 - Brother HL-L2350DW: Brothers printers don't have a good reputation (I don't know why) but this recent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVCS6UM2eeI&lc=UgyNmCq3cobIlQayvI14AaABAg.9lmozWeeaxf9lnFEYzh64E  shows a good heat transfer with this printer model.

[tooki]

2 - Brother HL-L2350DW: Brothers printers don't have a good reputation (I don't know why) 

With the Brother at my old job, I tried it, but the toner adhered to the transfer paper too well, and just wouldn’t transfer onto the PCB.