Can anyone still use a pencil?

[T3sl4co1l]

Dinosaurisms aren't evil, they're anachronistic bugs in interpersonal communications that can, at least in theory, be fixed.  Treat them as such.

The reason I do not consider pencils dinosaurisms/anachronistic...

Excuse me but I just have to call out the smoothness of this segue. 

For my part, I'm rather fond of the Sharpie fine pens.  This kind I think?
https://www.sharpie.com/pens/felt-tip-pens/sharpie-pens-medium-point-0.8mm/SAP_1783834.html
Y'know, there's three different numbers (two plain numbers and the UPC) on the box and I don't think either of them is the actual part number... so, that's cool... these are probably it, tho.

Anyway, they're no-mess, it's kind of a greasy ink so it's not usable anywhere it's not a permanent marker, and it hardly bleeds in paper.  Lasts pretty long too, and runs out slowly (giving a weaker line, so, just draw slower and it still works, until you're too impatient and toss it out).

I've used surprisingly few pencils in my life, which is probably not the best idea as the various scribbles on my notes can attest to, but oh well.  Paper's cheap, just keep redrawing it until it's right.

Tim

[SiliconWizard]

The reason I do not consider pencils dinosaurisms/anachronistic, is that there is a surprising amount of tactile feedback and visual resolution there that we cannot quite reach yet with digital devices.

Exactly. Until we design something as good in digital form, the comparison will always pale.

As to distributing drawings in digital form, I wish bitmap images were banned FOREVER.
Seriously, they suck. Use them for photographs. Not for drawings.

SVG is now supported by all web browsers, a number of applications, Inkscape is free. Use it as an output format when it's available!
(As to "converting" a scanned drawing to SVG, there are apps for that too. But I don't know of a good, open-source one. Is there any?)

[TimNJ]

I really don't think modern education practice instills in young people, at an early enough age, the ability to think abstractly and put those thoughts to paper.   This is one reason why I really believe that we need to have "art like" and "trades related" classes early in the educational process.   The goal of such classes should be to develop the ability to handle abstract thinking and the translation of such to paper.

This is a good observation, though nothing really new or earth shattering. Generally, I think education has become way too "noisy" (i.e. too many buzzwords, ass-backward performance metrics, and way too much focus on testing to get into the best college etc.) One of the primary outcomes of education should be to produce curious kids with an interest in learning! All these other things are just distractions, and are really a disservice to students in the end.

Similarly, I find it weird that (these days) there is a notion that art and science are mutually exclusive. Either you are an "art person" or you are a "science person" but you cannot be both. So silly.

[SiliconWizard]

I really don't think modern education practice instills in young people, at an early enough age, the ability to think abstractly and put those thoughts to paper.   This is one reason why I really believe that we need to have "art like" and "trades related" classes early in the educational process.   The goal of such classes should be to develop the ability to handle abstract thinking and the translation of such to paper.

This is a good observation, though nothing really new or earth shattering. Generally, I think education has become way too "noisy" (i.e. too many buzzwords, ass-backward performance metrics, and way too much focus on testing to get into the best college etc.) One of the primary outcomes of education should be to produce curious kids with an interest in learning! All these other things are just distractions, and are really a disservice to students in the end.

I think education has almost always served, in history, as a selection tool, more so than as something to give everyone a fair chance and make people "learners" - which ultimately is, making them more autonomous. The latter, maybe we have seen that in most of the 20th century. That was more the exception than the norm IMO. Looks like we're getting back to the good old selection. So, it's not about making you a better version of yourself, but more about making you "better" than the masses.

Similarly, I find it weird that (these days) there is a notion that art and science are mutually exclusive. Either you are an "art person" or you are a "science person" but you cannot be both. So silly.

True. And even exclusively in tech: engineering itself is not only about science. It always has a part of it which is "art", in its general sense.

[Nominal Animal]

SVG is now supported by all web browsers, a number of applications, Inkscape is free. Use it as an output format when it's available!
(As to "converting" a scanned drawing to SVG, there are apps for that too. But I don't know of a good, open-source one. Is there any?)

Do you consider Inkscape's own Path > Trace Bitmap "good"?

To test, one can import an image, then select that image, and Path > Trace Bitmap.  The Live Preview uses a blocky version of the results, and is fast, and thus can be useful in fine-tuning the parameters; but the Live Preview is not nearly as high fidelity as the results are.

I don't know how useful that is in practice for scanned line drawings, because like I said, I re-draw the diagrams etc. from scratch, typically in Inkscape or Dia.  Sometimes (isometric 3D views etc) I use a script or a program to generate the SVG.  And I like to fine-tune them by hand, omitting the SVG width and height attributes, leaving only the viewBox attribute, so that the SVG will fill whatever region it is displayed in.

[SiliconWizard]

SVG is now supported by all web browsers, a number of applications, Inkscape is free. Use it as an output format when it's available!
(As to "converting" a scanned drawing to SVG, there are apps for that too. But I don't know of a good, open-source one. Is there any?)

Do you consider Inkscape's own Path > Trace Bitmap "good"?

Well, I don't know. Last time I tried, it was disappointing, but that was a while ago. I'll give it a shot again.

[Benta]

Similarly, I find it weird that (these days) there is a notion that art and science are mutually exclusive. Either you are an "art person" or you are a "science person" but you cannot be both. So silly.

Wonderful comment.
The highest praise I will award someone is "Renaissance Man", which are both.

And now I await the shitstorm for not including the LGBTXYZQPRSÆØÅ community. And non-binary and woke.

[TimNJ]

Similarly, I find it weird that (these days) there is a notion that art and science are mutually exclusive. Either you are an "art person" or you are a "science person" but you cannot be both. So silly.

Wonderful comment.
The highest praise I will award someone is "Renaissance Man", which are both.

And now I await the shitstorm for not including the LGBTXYZQPRSÆØÅ community. And non-binary and woke.

Thanks...but I really have no idea how my comment relates to LGBTQ people or gender identity.

My comment is mainly on the system which puts so much emphasis on having a "successful" career, that anything that does not directly (or obviously) pertain to the career is regarded as a waste of time.

[Benta]

Thanks...but I really have no idea how my comment relates to LGBTQ people or gender identity.

Simply because I used the term "Renaissance Man" which is a nono these days. It has nothing to do with you, sorry.

[T3sl4co1l]

I mean, "Renaissance Person" is as easy to type, and more general; but I don't get the disproportionate response, here and up-thread.  Is there something you'd like to talk about?

Tim

[Benta]

I mean, "Renaissance Person" is as easy to type, and more general; but I don't get the disproportionate response, here and up-thread.  Is there something you'd like to talk about?

Tim

Nah, it's all a bit "tongue in cheek" concerning the strangeness of the world today. But humour/irony/sarcasm doesn't come over well in a written form like this forum.
I'll stick to being technical in the future. But honestly, you started it. Just sayin'.

[m k]

Manual what.

[m k]

Megger.

[coppercone2]

yes, whenever something goes wrong, and it always does, I flat out do not care what technology works. I have scraped words into a chassis with pliers before to label it. Having a pencil around is like immediately being able to fall back into the 1500's when problems occur rather then going into the stone age. Its like a fall arrestor.

[eti]

Sheets of paper with pencil on don’t have a battery that dies technology that goes outdated, firmware to corrupt and they’re not waterPROOF, but will still be usable when dried out. Also, archaeologists won’t dig up your crappy tablet and read the schematics from it in 200 years. Also related - you can’t dig out a pile of JPEGs from a shoe box and thumb through them sentimentally.

Computing has its place, but it’s place is not to REplace what came before it. If fails miserably at trying to be an analogue of older, SIMPLE, uncomplicated implements.

The problem with the digital age is that people are like a kid with a new hammer, and everything is suddenly a nail. “Just because we can” is a crap reason to do things.

[vk6zgo]

I really don't think modern education practice instills in young people, at an early enough age, the ability to think abstractly and put those thoughts to paper.   This is one reason why I really believe that we need to have "art like" and "trades related" classes early in the educational process.   The goal of such classes should be to develop the ability to handle abstract thinking and the translation of such to paper.

This is a good observation, though nothing really new or earth shattering. Generally, I think education has become way too "noisy" (i.e. too many buzzwords, ass-backward performance metrics, and way too much focus on testing to get into the best college etc.) One of the primary outcomes of education should be to produce curious kids with an interest in learning! All these other things are just distractions, and are really a disservice to students in the end.

Similarly, I find it weird that (these days) there is a notion that art and science are mutually exclusive. Either you are an "art person" or you are a "science person" but you cannot be both. So silly.

Yes!

Many of the most used techniques in industrial manufacturing have their genesis in Sculptor's endeavours to construct very large bronze statues. (My Father was an Engineering Patternmaker by trade, & a sculptor by vocation.)

Principles of harmonic motion, & Fourier analysis, grew out of musical instrument technology.
The old tuning fork, so beloved of piano tuners & voice teachers, was the first type of frequency stable reference used, when such a thing was desired in early Electronics.