Challenge Thread: The fastest breadboard oscillator on the mudball

[joeqsmith]

WTF is wrong with you.

[edit] Why instead of building hate device, taking pictures of it, you didn't answer this post:

Anyone who follows me around from thread to thread like a small lost puppy craving attention deserves some.  I provided it in a constructive manner as I assume you are on this forum because of some interest in electronics.  Although, I've never seen a post from you that would indicate this I'm willing to provide you with the benefit of the doubt. 

As to why you choose to follow me around, that most likely is some form of mental illness.   Google:  "Stalkers are lonely and lack self-esteem, yet they feel very, very important."  www.webmd.com     

No matter, while you may be  "stirring the pot, for entertainment purposes.",  I am using you personally for a little entertainment myself.   We both get something out of you being here.  Its a win win!!       

[joeqsmith]

A competition on how fast a 555 can be made to run, would be a good one for a different thread!

Start that competition in the Beginners area and you may get a decent showing. 

[ogden]

Question to OP: If I do not show my entry due to lack of MW counter/SA, I can't post here in this thread?

Highly encouraged to post it anyway. This competition is for fun and educational purposes.
And to disprove the false legend that "breadboards can't go over 10MHz".

Over 10MHz you say? Ok. Here you go. Both runs on 2n3904.

[ogden]

... I am stirring the pot, for entertainment purposes. ...

Of course you are.  It's the whole point of trolling.   

No. I just pointed at few issues of the contest. Your retaliation with insults, 555 timer sarcasm - that's trolling.

I'm sorry that you took those 555 comments as sarcastic.   I just assumed this was your skill level or at least something you could actually tackle.   I bet you could find some beginners videos showing how to hook one up.   Maybe add a your own twist to it, like a flashing LED.  You like LEDs don't you??   


****
Now that I understand that the 555 would be a pretty big first step for you,  to help you get started, I did a Google search for a simple oscillator and came up with the following link:

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cnr/negosc.htm

I know it seems very complex and while the physics behind it are, building it is not too bad.   Picture showing the scope attached to the base.  179 is looking at the base, 180 is at the emitter.    Transistor is a 2N2222A.   Try it.  You may find it more fun than spending your time trolling the forum. 

*****
Sorry, I forgot to add an LED.   Kids like flashing things right?? 

Pic2 shows the setup.  Note the resistor in parallel with the LED.  Scope again attached to the base in 175.   You could adjust the Rs, C and voltage to get the effect you like. 

WTF is wrong with you.

[edit] Why instead of building hate device, taking pictures of it, you didn't answer this post:

Anyone who follows me around from thread to thread like a small lost puppy craving attention deserves some.  I provided it in a constructive manner as I assume you are on this forum because of some interest in electronics.  Although, I've never seen a post from you that would indicate this I'm willing to provide you with the benefit of the doubt. 

As to why you choose to follow me around, that most likely is some form of mental illness.   Google:  "Stalkers are lonely and lack self-esteem, yet they feel very, very important."  www.webmd.com     

No matter, while you may be  "stirring the pot, for entertainment purposes.",  I am using you personally for a little entertainment myself.   We both get something out of you being here.  Its a win win!!       

Yes, I am subscribed to your YT channel. Yes, I did see that you try to bend breadboard rules and came to this thread and did say so. So what? Your ego received dent in result? - You have issues.

[joeqsmith]

Question to OP: If I do not show my entry due to lack of MW counter/SA, I can't post here in this thread?

Highly encouraged to post it anyway. This competition is for fun and educational purposes.
And to disprove the false legend that "breadboards can't go over 10MHz".

Over 10MHz you say? Ok. Here you go. Both runs on 2n3904.

Damn, you actually did something!!! Congratulations on your very first technical post!!! 

[joeqsmith]

WTF is wrong with you.

[edit] Why instead of building hate device, taking pictures of it, you didn't answer this post:

Anyone who follows me around from thread to thread like a small lost puppy craving attention deserves some.  I provided it in a constructive manner as I assume you are on this forum because of some interest in electronics.  Although, I've never seen a post from you that would indicate this I'm willing to provide you with the benefit of the doubt. 

As to why you choose to follow me around, that most likely is some form of mental illness.   Google:  "Stalkers are lonely and lack self-esteem, yet they feel very, very important."  www.webmd.com     

No matter, while you may be  "stirring the pot, for entertainment purposes.",  I am using you personally for a little entertainment myself.   We both get something out of you being here.  Its a win win!!       

Yes, I am subscribed to your YT channel. Yes, I did see that you try to bend breadboard rules and came to this thread and did say so. So what? Your ego received dent in result? - You have issues.

I don't mind.  Sadly though you are unable to comprehend that I asked the OP before I proceeded and was told all of these techniques I am using so far are acceptable.  Don't forget, this is not my competition, it's the OPs.  They set the rules, not me.   This means everyone is free to use any of these techniques.  Now that you have actually built something, this includes you.     

I am a bit sad you left the LEDs out but I am VERY VERY impressed with how meticulously aligned every component, ever wire, every thing is.   Obsessive compulsive is another form of mental illness.  In this case the fact you were able to complete something and show it is huge as I am sure you are still tweaking the wires and not happy with the results.   

******
Hold up there little Chihuahua, you are using a ceramic resonator.  Rule 2  No crystals / MEMS etc.   Are we allowed to use ceramic resonators? 

[ogden]

I don't mind.  Sadly though you are unable to comprehend that I asked the OP before I proceeded and was told all of these techniques I am using so far are acceptable.  Don't forget, this is not my competition, it's the OPs.  They set the rules, not me.   This means everyone is free to use any of these techniques.  Now that you have actually built something, this includes you.     

I am a bit sad you left the LEDs out but I am VERY VERY impressed with how meticulously aligned every component, ever wire, every thing is.   Obsessive compulsive is another form of mental illness.  In this case the fact you were able to complete something and show it is huge as I am sure you are still tweaking the wires and not happy with the results.   

I wonder - when you will stop.

Hold up there little Chihuahua, you are using a ceramic resonator.  Rule 2  No crystals / MEMS etc.   Are we allowed to use ceramic resonators? 

That was not entry, just teaser.

[Simon]

Well he's now stopped for 5 days. Lets see if he can find something more useful to do with his time after that!

[T3sl4co1l]

What, is one of them taking a time-out?  Would rather both.  The only thing worse than a troll is a mark that responds to it incessantly.

Tim

[Simon]

give us a clue, how many pages do I have to read to sort these two out?

[0culus]

give us a clue, how many pages do I have to read to sort these two out?

Ogden has been being a jerk about “dangerous bending of rules” throughout the thread. Even in cases where the OP clarified stuff is ok. He’s trolling, and shouldn’t get off while joe gets a vacation. I have surmised myself that this trolling is a pattern. I won’t be engaging with ‘ogden’ any further.

[ogden]

give us a clue, how many pages do I have to read to sort these two out?

Ogden has been being a jerk about “dangerous bending of rules” throughout the thread.

You wish. That's cowardly exaggregation. Just read my posts in the profile.

[Simon]

Right, peace may be upon you all, the troll can have 2 weeks to think about his next report with selective information the other can have a day to think about just reporting trolls next time instead of feeding them!

[PA0PBZ]

Darn... I just wanted him to confirm to rule 7, now I have to wait even longer if it will ever happen 

[mnementh]

Oklay...  just happened here...?

I generally tend to agree with Oculus' surmise; ogden has been nit-pick trolling the thread pretty hard, and unless joe is outright lying, he has a history of thread-stalking joe.

Joe's response, while it may have been viscerally cathartic, was def a bit OTT for a public space; it should've been toned down or if the venting was necessary, taken to PM. 

But seriously... this is a pretty obvious case of personality-clash oscillation. This is hardly new territory; we've been dealing with this kind of passive-aggressive back & forth since the days of UseNet and the solution is pretty well-established: BOTH parties are responsible. Not JUST the troll, and not just the one(s) feeding the troll. Either both/all or none should be given a time-out.  That is why we call it a time-out: Not a punishment, but forcing all parties to step back and consider their contribution to the NOISE part of the SNR.


That said... Joe, when you get back, we SERIOUSLY need decently-focused pictures of the ENTIRE circuit. It's delicious to see those numbers, but part of the OP's rules were that the entire circuit needs to be SEEN to count; and it seems obvious to me that requires pictures of the entire circuit rendered clearly enough that someone else COULD duplicate your circuit and results (or at least come close) in a double-blind fashion. So far we have NOT seen any of your circuits in this level of detail.

If your circuit requires the Faraday cage, cool. We need documentation-quality pics of the actual circuit before and after the cage is applied. Preferably decent resolution video of the cage IN ACTION; if the circuit works but needs the cage to get your results, you should be able to demonstrate that in real-time.

BreakingOhmsLaw, I humbly submit that while joe's results ARE impressive, PA0PBZ is correct: He simply has not given reasonable proof that his actual circuits ARE what he claims they are.

Okay... I'm going to go back to lurking and tossing peanut shells now; this "being the voice of reason" thing is quite taxing. 

mnem

[0culus]

In Joe's defense, he has been documenting with videos up until about a week ago...another video featuring the new circuit and demonstrating its construction in detail would be great IMO. But yeah, he has been a bit coy and I think one should definitely at a minimum provide high quality photos and tell us exactly what parts you're using, as I have tried to do with each "thing" I've attempted. There's no reason to hide anything about your circuit here unless you are, in fact, cheating the system outside of the spirit of gentlemanly competition. I say this because I support creative RF design as long as the breadboard is intimately involved. Otherwise I could build my circuits Manhattan style.

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

While I have no reason to suspect foul play on Joes part, I ask him to provide clear images while running and showing the counter for the sake of fairness.

I believe that Joe is where he is now, because he has shown good knowledge of RF engineering and particularly how to deal with parasitics (thinning wires, shielding etc.)

That said, i have parts on order, and i know i am not the only one. First to dethrone Joe shall be known as the kingslayer from hence forth!

[PA0PBZ]

...and tell us exactly what parts you're using...

Fair enough, here's what I used: http://www.cel.com/pdf/datasheets/ne3210s1.pdf

[0culus]

Mind you, I'm not meaning to suggest Joe is doing something shady...I rather think he is not...just that for the sake of fairness we should strive to be as complete as possible documenting our efforts. 

[PA0PBZ]

Mind you, I'm not meaning to suggest Joe is doing something shady...I rather think he is not...just that for the sake of fairness we should strive to be as complete as possible documenting our efforts. 

I agree, but I wonder why he is keeping his secrets, I'd like to learn how he is doing things, that's why we are here after all. Having said that, I don't like the way he is creating floating capacitors and inductors, it seems to defeat the idea that everything has to be connected via the breadboard but since OP has giving him the OK on that I guess it's fine.

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

Having said that, I don't like the way he is creating floating capacitors and inductors, it seems to defeat the idea that everything has to be connected via the breadboard but since OP has giving him the OK on that I guess it's fine.

To be fair, that was basically ogdens criticism.
But once you are dealing with microwaves, that can hardly be avoided. If I allow leads to be soldered on SMT parts, what is stopping anyone from making them longer to act as an inductor, or running them along the breadboard as capacitor? So there is little point in forbidding that. Should that prove to be too large an advantage, we may need to split the competition into soldering allowed/not allowed, but for the time being feel that would be to restricting on creating your own capacitors and inductors.
Also, long leads can be fair use as a delay line once we go even faster. Wouldn't want to deny those.
Feel free to share your thoughts on this, everyone.
If there is a large consent on any rule, we can tweak it to keep it fun.

[0culus]

OK, this is the same 2SC5227 circuit as before, except I very carefully tweaked positioning of the components, particularly the extra inductors I added around the basic Colpitts circuit. I also played with the input voltage. Somehow, this combination of tweaks allowed me to bring the second harmonic 7.5 dB up from the original fundamental, enough to get a stable reading on the 5350B microwave counter.

[PA0PBZ]

I guess part of the criticism is because he's not showing what he does, we only get to see pictures of part of the circuit. I feel that I'm limited by the length (inductance) and coupling (capacitance) of the breadboard tracks and that is hard to overcome except when you are separating part of your circuit from the breadboard and make it floating.
Oh well, let's see what he can show when he's back.

[PA0PBZ]

...enough to get a stable reading on the 5350B microwave counter.

I'd say that is a valid entry!

[0culus]

I guess part of the criticism is because he's not showing what he does, we only get to see pictures of part of the circuit. I feel that I'm limited by the length (inductance) and coupling (capacitance) of the breadboard tracks and that is hard to overcome except when you are separating part of your circuit from the breadboard and make it floating.
Oh well, let's see what he can show when he's back.

The parasitics are interacting strongly at those frequencies, though. This is akin to the Tek 184 high frequency multiplier board that has been shown a couple of times...the two inductors whose interaction with one another are crucial to the circuit's operation do not touch! I only achieved what I posted above by extremely subtle tweaks to the geometry above the breadboard. It's highly sensitive!