Challenge Thread: The fastest breadboard oscillator on the mudball

[SilverSolder]

   0.5mm BGA being soldered to an adaptor.   Would have been easier to get the right adaptor in the first place!     The wires are strands of fine desoldering braid...

    That kind of soldering I do NOT do for fun; I ONLY do it when I'm being well-paid by the hour, NOT flat-rate. 

mnem
*tsssssssst...*

Let's just say it was a stretch goal! 

I proved it could be done, now I won't need to do it again.  It was an experience similar to building a ship inside a bottle, only worse!

[0culus]

While I have no reason to suspect foul play on Joes part, I ask him to provide clear images while running and showing the counter for the sake of fairness.

I believe that Joe is where he is now, because he has shown good knowledge of RF engineering and particularly how to deal with parasitics (thinning wires, shielding etc.)

That said, i have parts on order, and i know i am not the only one. First to dethrone Joe shall be known as the kingslayer from hence forth!

Looking forward to it!     


I've been enjoying this book from George Southworth.  For the few of you who are actually interested in learning something, I recommend it.
https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Technology/Fourty-Years-of-Radio-Research-Southworth-1962.pdf

Hot damn!! Welcome back Joe...I gotta figure my stuff out... 

Also, thanks for the book link...I am going to track down a print copy. Fascinating!

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

Thank you Joe for that very detailed video. Record updated, nice work!
If you go any higher, some 3-letter agency is going to kick your door down and drag you off to groom lake for questioning where you got the alien technology from.

[SilverSolder]

While I have no reason to suspect foul play on Joes part, I ask him to provide clear images while running and showing the counter for the sake of fairness.

I believe that Joe is where he is now, because he has shown good knowledge of RF engineering and particularly how to deal with parasitics (thinning wires, shielding etc.)

That said, i have parts on order, and i know i am not the only one. First to dethrone Joe shall be known as the kingslayer from hence forth!

Looking forward to it!     


I've been enjoying this book from George Southworth.  For the few of you who are actually interested in learning something, I recommend it.
https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Technology/Fourty-Years-of-Radio-Research-Southworth-1962.pdf

LOL! 

Congratulations on the craziest electronics project to grace the EEVblog forum pages for a while! 

[joeqsmith]

Thank you Joe for that very detailed video. Record updated, nice work!
If you go any higher, some 3-letter agency is going to kick your door down and drag you off to groom lake for questioning where you got the alien technology from.

I would hate you to go away thinking that the 25.0GHz was some glitch and not worthy of the record holder, so I have attached a short clip of it running.   25 has a nice ring to it.       

Also attached is a picture is showing the the final version of the tuning network.  I changed from epoxy to crazy glue for the quick cure times. The smaller wire to get to these higher frequencies.  I mentioned the wires were about the size of my whiskers, so I have sacrificed one for this picture.

I would imagine anyone with decent equipment could set a new record by just replicating what I have shown.

[herc]

You can use them up to 100's of GHz even, on-chip.

very interesting! do they indeed use the same directly coupled transistor multivibrator on chip ? do you have some more links / information ?

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

I mentioned the wires were about the size of my whiskers, so I have sacrificed one for this picture.

[joeqsmith]

Nice job getting to 25 GHz...did you have to hack your counter to get that to work?

I wanted to address your PM in public in case someone else has the same question.   

I have not modified my HP5342A.  It appears no options are installed.  I have no idea what signal level is required for for this particular counter to lock at 25GHz. 

You and a few other's have commented about my not disclosing full details and there seems to be a question on my cheating. 

There's no reason to hide anything about your circuit here unless you are, in fact, cheating the system outside of the spirit of gentlemanly competition.

.... He simply has not given reasonable proof that his actual circuits ARE what he claims they are.

While you may feel you "need" to more information, there are no rules requiring a documented bill of materials.   It is a competition to see how the few of us entering, measure up against our peers.  It's not to teach Dick and Jane how to get their dog Spot to oscillate.    Akin to a friendly game of football, we don't normally hand out the play books at the end of a season.   It's the OP's competition and I will leave it to them to determine if I have supplied adequate proof of my claims.   

Personally, I have no interest in being a parrot.  It requires no skills or innovation to surpass what I've shown, just better equipment, deeper pockets.  Mind you, I am not claiming that a simple feedback network is a innovative.  For those who would like to just copy what I have shown, here are a few additional clues that may help. 

I changed wire sizes. While I stated I was 38AWG Beldin magnet wire, if you are rushing out to buy the same wire I used, you may want to order various spools of smallest you can find.   

While I mentioned I bought the parts from Digikey, be aware I have procured four different transistors and have shown three of them.  Shaving down the leads may help.   
   
The wire lengths and position are critical.   Without a way to manipulate the wires, I doubt I would see these numbers. 

From the video, you can see that the coax was a problem.   I suspect I could achieve a small amount of gain by connecting the oscillator directly to the counter to remove the return loss of all these connectors.  With better equipment you shouldn't need to use the semi-ridged as I have shown.  The counter is so far outside it's specified operating region, I'm guessing it is just not sensitive enough. 

Good luck. 

[herc]

I need some help here understanding why this circuit - a very simple RF Sniffer - works:

https://www.instructables.com/id/VHF-UHF-RF-Sniffer/
(image and circuit CC by simpletronic)

question 1)
so ok, the HF Transistor amplifies whatever RF its seeing at its input. Then, at the collector, there is an amplified RF signal.
now, the LED starts to light up. But why ? shouldnt the (supposedly) large internal capacitance of the LED shortcut and bypass the AC current ?

question 2)
how much would the upper cutoff frequency be impacted / reduced if i use two HF Transistors in a darlington setup ?

i have a darlington setup on breadboard (6 GHz Transistors). it easily detects 2G signals from my smartphone ( around 900 MHz) but fails to detect the higher LTE / 3G freqencies.

it is probably limited by the breadboard capacitances but i still marvel about the internal LED capacitances and [if | how ] that limits the upper detectable frequency.

if built on double sided PCB in manhattan style, it seems to be able to pick up Microwave leakage from a microwave ofen:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/5ppH2XjC3zM?feature=oembed
(video by simpletronic)

[mnementh]

Oklay...  just happened here...? ....  Okay... I'm going to go back to lurking and tossing peanut shells now; this "being the voice of reason" thing is quite taxing. 

Not having a skin in the game, I am not sure why you feel you need to be the voice of reason.   It's not your childhood playground and we have no need for a hall monitor.   Its a friendly competition.  I suggest you join the fun and build something if your want to contribute.

Joe, I've already stated I have neither the chops nor the desire to attempt to dethrone you. 

If you can't handle a little friendly ribbing and an honest request for more detail, that's not my problem. That friendly request WAS pretty clearly defined in what you chose to leave out when you quoted part of my statement out of context.

That said, I DO have skin in the game, just the same as everyone who bothers to tune in; the time I spend here looking at what is produced. In the spirit of friendly competition, I didn't feel it unreasonable to expect to actually be able to SEE your circuit. Being a civil voice for those others who just wanted to see is the only contribution I COULD make, so I did my best.

Thank you for taking the time to make a "Gizza-ma-hertz for Dummies" type video so we could play along at home; it was a lot more than the "pictures of the entire circuit rendered clearly" I was asking for.

Cheers,

mnem
 

[mnementh]

Just because you were being trolled by ogden, don't assume I am.

I was NOT stirring, I was asking the OP to make a judgement as to whether you had produced a single decently-detailed pic of your entire circuit. My personal opinion is that you still haven't; but that's just MY opinion.

THIS is what Simon was talking about when he said you were feeding the trolls... I'm not trolling, so I'm not gonna bite.

Cheers,

mnem
 

[joeqsmith]

Just because you were being trolled by ogden, don't assume I am.

I was NOT stirring, I was asking the OP to make a judgement as to whether you had produced a single decently-detailed pic of your entire circuit. My personal opinion is that you still haven't; but that's just MY opinion.

THIS is what Simon was talking about when he said you were feeding the trolls... I'm not trolling, so I'm not gonna bite.

Cheers,

mnem
 

Odd you would feel you could make such a bold statement about my not providing proof of my claims but then not want to discuss it.    You call your actions friendly ribbing, civil and claim to be the voice of reason but seem to want to involve the admins when I defend my posts.

I have added Ogden to my block list and will include you as it's obvious what your goals are for being here.       

[mnementh]

Yup. I'm obviously... asking for a single decently-detailed pic of your entire circuit. I can see how that is so inflammatory.

mnem
 

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

As far as i am concerned the entry is valid. Joe does hold the breadboard into the camera in his video.
I do not require to name parts. It is a competition after all, so some trade secrets should be allowed.

[0culus]

As far as i am concerned the entry is valid. Joe does hold the breadboard into the camera in his video.
I do not require to name parts. It is a competition after all, so some trade secrets should be allowed.

OK, it's been spoken. I disagree, but it doesn't really matter. I was hoping to perhaps learn a few things from other's designs on this thread. If Joe wants to keep secrets, he's free to do so but I do not wish to partake any further. Any remaining desire of mine to work on this has been mostly tamped down anyway by all the unpleasantness. I've got other, more interesting projects to work in my lab that don't involve forum politics. Cya!

[herc]

does someone have a suggestion for a fool proof, easy to built power amplifier (centered around 2.4 GHz, lets say with a target power of 1 Watt ?)
thanks !

[avlijas.sladjan]

Yesterday I found a YT video about this funny contest. Thanks to Joe's video I want to make my own oscillator. In the first try I made my record (4.9GHZ) and after a small tuning (cutting) it was 14.4GHz. With this transistor maybe I can go until 20-21G (transistor will have some gain), but it will be maximum. For me it is enough

[tim_]

Yesterday I found a YT video about this funny contest. Thanks to Joe's video I want to make my own oscillator. In the first try I made my record (4.9GHZ) and after a small tuning (cutting) it was 14.4GHz. With this transistor maybe I can go until 20-21G (transistor will have some gain), but it will be maximum. For me it is enough

Nice, so it's possible to break the 10 GHz barrier without drama.

Can you share anything about the circuit and the transistor you used? This looks like a common base collpits oscillator, but why is the base only biased to the ground?

[avlijas.sladjan]

No problem. This is GaAs FET and needs negative bias, like JFET. With this transistor it is hard to make amp without oscillation

[avlijas.sladjan]

Tonight I tried some small tuning, and got 18.7GHz. Now I was done, for more I will need better transistor and some reconfiguration on board

[joeqsmith]

Looks good so far.   I see 20GHz+ in your future. Good luck!

[avlijas.sladjan]

Thank you Joe .
Maybe it is good to stop here. I'm afraid that my wife will kick me out from house  because I make 5G radiation in children room (my current lab).

[avlijas.sladjan]

[joeqsmith]

I would like to see the "or more".    I had bought some other parts back then to hedge my bets in case the ones I used wouldn't get the job done.  I tried one of them out a while back using a delay line by just shorting the base to the collector.   Fairly decent performance.  After a bit of trimming, eventually damaged the part.   That part is a bit better than what I used for that 25GHz but I can't do anything more with it with the equipment I have available. 

Your so close to 20, may as well keep going until you reach what that SA can show. 

[avlijas.sladjan]

I changed the YIG filter/preselector on this SA and only adjusted to 22GHz. Also I have an Advantest R3271A (100Hz-26.5GHz, not at home right now), and maybe next week I will have it. Also can bypass the yig filter and use signal ID (to have 26GHZ instrument), but my main problem is the transistor. I will try to find a better transistor but it will be a hard task in Bosnia, also in covid period. I have already waited for some components and parts since april.
Before 4-5 month I wanted to buy an external mixer (26.5-40GHz) for HP, but I did not find a reason for this. Now I see that will be good to have it