| Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff |
| Sprint Day 0: An Open Source ventilator project you can believe in. |
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| EEVblog:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 31, 2020, 04:33:10 pm ---I think if you absolutely want to contribute right now, there are myriads of other actions you can currently take that will be way more effective. Just MHO. --- End quote --- Like taking groceries to old people locked down in retirement villages. |
| HarryDoPECC:
The propublica link hints at a feature that is going to sink lots of the open source designs. COVID lung disease manifests partly by wet lungs that are hard to move - so need to push gas in and out, but mostly by gross impairment of diffusion of oxygen from gas to blood. It's maybe not that hard to lash up some motors and levers to squeeze a bag, but it turns out to be REALLY hard to deliver high partial pressures of oxygen into the lung. So a bag-squeezer is easy to design but not very much use. The useful /essential machine (hi O2) is really hard to design/make. That's why I think these amateur ventilator projects will deliver little benefit, even if they deliver a product. All should be starting with very clear target specs that include high enough fiO2. If that cannot be achieved then project may be diverting valuable resources. |
| Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on April 02, 2020, 04:00:25 am --- --- Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 31, 2020, 04:33:10 pm ---I think if you absolutely want to contribute right now, there are myriads of other actions you can currently take that will be way more effective. Just MHO. --- End quote --- Like taking groceries to old people locked down in retirement villages. --- End quote --- ... while doing the best you can to avoid exposing them, i.e., paramount hand hygiene, disposable gloves while packaging the groceries, better-than-average DIY face masks (in case you are infected yet symptomless), and, avoiding the temptation of chatting with the elderly, just leaving the stuff on their door. And, don't forget younger people either. Organizing a mass delivery of basic foodstuff would reduce the number of people visiting stores, making it easier for those who do, maintain safe distance to each other, slowing down the infection chains. Yes, there are many things you can do. The ventilator issue is solved by people who do, and who know what to do, and how to do it; not by the eager but clueless management people who need to write on EEVblog forum about their project management plans. Note, the project timeline 2-3 weeks; it has to be a small but efficient team where everyone absolutely knows what they are doing. These teams are people who already know each other, and emerge automatically within the industry. The design work is all about manufacturability and BOM. 3D printing is not solving the issues, you can't print valves, connectors, hoses, pumps, etc. |
| filssavi:
I’m sorry guys, I really get wanting to help, but as engineers or aspiring so you need to get a grip on reality... The whole most open source ventilator projects are a very naive waste of time and resources at best, and an extremely disgusting way of getting publicity in a time of crisis at worst Nobody here, (and in other projects as well) has any clue of the human anatomy, physiology and pathology to even start coming up with requirements that should stop you right there and then, you can’t just google for 5 minutes, copy some stuff from around the web and call it a day. Before even thinking about a design you should crucially not only be able to tell what the requirements are, but also explain why they were chosen (with simple equations, from first principles, not just hand waiving) The discussion now should not be about volts and bits but pascals and litres per minute Then we go to the second major roadblock: production Let’s suppose some sort of god hands you down the perfect ventilator design what do you do then? You just plonk it down on GitHub and then call it a day, hoping that someone will manufacture them? No you have to go into production, and here 2 problems arise first money, more specifically whose money pay for all of that and second you will now have to buy rognificant stocks of parts at very short notice, without any previous relationships with manufacturers (to which I say good luck with that) Lest but not least if the s***t hits the fan and your makeshift ventilator kills someone who’s getting charged with murder? As No amount of waivers, disclaimers and eulas are going to save you from that |
| AndyC_772:
--- Quote from: filssavi on April 02, 2020, 07:29:34 am ---Before even thinking about a design you should crucially not only be able to tell what the requirements are, but also explain why they were chosen (with simple equations, from first principles, not just hand waiving) The discussion now should not be about volts and bits but pascals and litres per minute --- End quote --- That part is surprisingly readily available: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-ventilator-supply-specification/rapidly-manufactured-ventilator-system-specification You're right about the liability aspect, though. I've certainly never designed a device knowing very well that people using it will die. Not 'might' or 'could' if something goes catastrophically wrong, they absolutely, definitely will whether the machine works properly or not. |
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