Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
Sprint Day 0: An Open Source ventilator project you can believe in.
beanflying:
It remains the issue that this discussion is now way to late, well before you get to competencies of any contributions toward a cobbled together project. And even if you get it together where do you source the bits in quantity in time without plundering existing manufacturers of known products? The time to look at this was when China first started to blow up.
Applying our relevant skill sets or offering time (if you have it available) to existing providers/manufacturers or like the OP has some skills in the medical field then volunteering will have an immediate and positive effect.
This circular discussion apart from being technically interesting will yield Nil products in the time frame now available -30->60 days :'(
filssavi:
--- Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 02, 2020, 07:40:57 am ---
--- Quote from: filssavi on April 02, 2020, 07:29:34 am ---Before even thinking about a design you should crucially not only be able to tell what the requirements are, but also explain why they were chosen (with simple equations, from first principles, not just hand waiving)
The discussion now should not be about volts and bits but pascals and litres per minute
--- End quote ---
That part is surprisingly readily available:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-ventilator-supply-specification/rapidly-manufactured-ventilator-system-specification
You're right about the liability aspect, though. I've certainly never designed a device knowing very well that people using it will die. Not 'might' or 'could' if something goes catastrophically wrong, they absolutely, definitely will whether the machine works properly or not.
--- End quote ---
This still qualifies as hand waiving, you are just parroting something you found online and I doubt you really understand it
The point is not the number in itself you (or better the project leaders, the ones who call the shots) have to explain why the number are those and not something else higher or lower
This is important not for the numbers in themselves but to show that you really understand the consequences of your design choices and what implications they have on the person you are ventilating
Also keep in ming that we often talk about peoples dying (I’m guilty of that myself in the previous post) but in case of a small malfunction the result might be worse, ventilation is extremely harsh on the lungs, so it stands to reason that in case of an out of spec ventilator the lungs might be damaged so that the person does not die, but needs respiratory support for the rest of their life significantly decreasing their quality of life
This might even go against their will (do not resuscitate etc), and and might open you and/or the hospital to extremely large damage claims
bson:
It's a pointless project in the U.S. If it takes 45-90 days to get N95 mask manufacturing approved under normal circumstances (unrestricted travel etc), then expect a year for a ventilator design and production under current circumstances (federal employees can't travel to inspect a facility without special dispensation for instance). There are plenty who are looking to manufacture ventilators, and your efforts would be better placed to lobby the White House to order regulatory agencies to adapt. Basically, they need to stop the academic wankery (if it's not perfect it's not good enough) and look at the best that can be accomplished given timeframes and resources, non-zero benefit (i.e. "something for nothing"), stacking lots of small odds in their favor, accept risk, and simply realize people are going to die no matter what already. Congress also needs to indemnify makers, otherwise a single defective unit will put them out of business, which is not conducive to making hundreds of thousands of anything as the defect rate will be non-zero. The regulatory agencies need to accept it's better for one person to be killed by defective equipment than a thousand to die from a complete lack. President Trump has shown willingness to accept responsibility and override agencies (he did so to start drug trials for example), and we already know what this will sound like when reported by the click-funded outrage industry (CNN et al). Such a manufacturing effort would make you a giant target and would probably both ruin you and land you in criminal court (the narrative will be you made shitty equipment to profit and your buddies in the White House helped you out) - although you'd likely be acquitted. Is it worth it to help people? Most of us would say no, it's just not worth the risk getting too close to any of it. Stick to lobbying (talk is still free).
helius:
--- Quote from: trophosphere on April 02, 2020, 01:49:14 am ---
--- Quote from: helius on April 02, 2020, 12:25:03 am ---Is there a reason that mechanical ventilation is the first resort for advanced pneumonia and not, say, draining the fluid that is causing them difficulty breathing?
--- End quote ---
Think of it this way, rephrasing your question would be "how would one drain fluid from a wet rag using a needle?"
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the reply. I wasn't actually talking about aspirating the chest wall as in pneumothorax etc, but of non-invasive airway clearance techniques like the ones taught to cystic fibrosis patients.
I mention this because all reports I have heard from doctors facing this pandemic is that mechanical ventilation is particularly hard on the body, takes weeks to recover from, and is often associated with comorbidities in older or weaker patients.
ehughes:
There are already safe ventilator designs. We do not need unproven , hacked together stuff. Introducing an Arduino controlled shitpile is a horrible idea .
What is needed is to help the existing supply chain who can built qualified units. As we speak there are already qualified CM's building real units.
Right now there is more of a shortage of people who can properly administer the vent. The are ancedotes of hospitals have to get gynocologists to do it.... The shortage of medical staff is real and they are burning out in critical regions
The time is better spent educating people on how to slow the spread. There is already well proven tech in the pipeline and lots of people working the problem.
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