Dave's Canyon Quadcopter Idea

[Nerobro]

Yes, all powered lift devices have a problem with reingesting their own rotorwash.  Or jetwash, as the case may be.  Moving (in any given direction) gets you out of your own wash.  And it will help quad rotors as well.

Shrouds do the whole multiplication effect, but hurt when you're trying to go forward. 

[Zad]

This is known as Vortex Ring, and is a problem with full sized helicopters as well as models. It manifests itself in urban man made "canyons" as well as natural ones. Basically what happens is that the rotor downwash circulates out, up the canyon wall, and then back down again. This downward moving air obviously reduces the effective lift available, and has the result of pushing the aircraft down and into the canyon wall. In most instances the "canyon" is a building wall on just one side, but the effect is the same, and just as expensive.

It can also manifest itself if the helicopter is in hover or descending vertically, where a toroid of air movement is created around the rotor disc, sucking the helicopter downwards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_ring_state

Note the comment on tandem rotor helicopters. Quad etc rotor machines cannot slide out of vortex ring, and it could potentially be a big problem if not identified early enough.

[Nerobro]

Not directly related, other than I'm going to put a camera on it...  But here's what I've been working on this weekend:

[sonicj]

balsa? thats retro!    i crash too much to fly something made out of wood...  is it a kit or scratch build?  AP camera or FPV?
-sj

[Psi]

Forget camera + FPV

do this

[sonicj]

Forget camera + FPV

do this...

im surprised the thing got airborne with those heavy steel balls on board. 

did you see his seatbelt? lol!

no d**n way i'd get on that thing and fly around, but i would probably fly this after many hours of sim time.

[EEVblog]

Looking to get a suitable low cost radio controller for the ArduCopter, any suggestions? (and available in Oz if possible)

Plus recommended big 3 cell battery and charger?
And what do people do about re-charging in the field?

Thanks.
Dave.

[Joker94]

For a transmitter I would recommend Spektrum. They have a cheap 6 channel radio (dx6i) for about $200 Australian from your local hobby shop. They will have all the mixing function that you need, it is easy to use, good bang for your buck and a quality product that you can trust the quadcopter with. (depending on how many rc people are on this forum it could turn into a similar argument as PIC or AVR only with Specktrum/ JR, Futaba or Hitec.)

Well for charging out at the feild I have a charger that can plug straight into a 12v lead acid.(mine is a smaller one not a car battery). Almost all rc 'smart chargers' will have the 12v battery supply option, for many cheaper ones this is the only option. I myself like the thunder power charger my particular model being this one http://thunderpowerrc.com/html/TP610CACDC.html. all the options you need for any type of bettery.(i chose this one so i know i can trust it when i charger my larger gas models.) Hobby king also sell battery chargers for a lot cheaper and still do the job fine.

For batteries Hobby king is as good a place as any, brands such as Turnigy, turnigy nano-tech and Rhino are all good brands and widely used. The major advantage of buying from a place such as hobby king is the price. For a large 3 cell battery(i assume lipo) the prices can be less than half that as a local hobby shop.

Cheers

Joker94

[Psi]

It's not local but i've heard that http://hobbyking.com have really good and well priced RC stuff.

[firewalker]

Looking to get a suitable low cost radio controller for the ArduCopter, any suggestions? (and available in Oz if possible)

Plus recommended big 3 cell battery and charger?
And what do people do about re-charging in the field?

Thanks.
Dave.

As for the charging. A friend of mine has a remote control toy-boat with Li-io batteries. He bought a Lead-acid 12v battery and a small solar panel. He charges the battery at home and hooks it on the solar panel charger a the field. Can't say though that the solar panel will make any big difference for short time usage.

Something like that:



Or something like...



 

Alexander.

[Flavour Flave]

Looking to get a suitable low cost radio controller for the ArduCopter, any suggestions? (and available in Oz if possible)

Plus recommended big 3 cell battery and charger?
And what do people do about re-charging in the field?

Thanks.
Dave.

You should check this radio out. Cheap, loads of channels. 

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F8992%5F%5FTurnigy%5F9X%5F9Ch%5FTransmitter%5Fw%5FModule%5F8ch%5FReceiver%5FMode%5F2%5Fv2%5FFirmware%5F.html?gclid=COm1k6rQqawCFUtC4QodVg2A7A

Review done by Bruce of RCmodelreviews. Posts on this forum as RCMR.

[kaptain_zero]

For the record, HobbyKing does have an AUS warehouse. They stock plenty of Turnigy Lipo packs, chargers and the Turnigy 9x radio...  The 9x is a nice, cheap radio.... I have three but I've been installing FrSky hack modules in them as I prefer FrSky receivers and of course I've switched to custom firmware etc. etc. Dave, I'm sure you are aware of Bruce's site... as in RCMODELREVIEWS.com and from what I understand, the 9x is pretty popular at the Tokoroa  airfield in NZ. His Xjet channel on youtube is another source of entertainment for me.

Regards

Christian

[RCMR]

Looking to get a suitable low cost radio controller for the ArduCopter, any suggestions? (and available in Oz if possible)

This is my area of expertise 

The best value system on the market at the moment is the Turnigy 9X radio from HobbyKing (they have an Australian warehouse).

This is an incredibly elegant (from an EE perspective) bit of kit that uses an Atmel processor and, thanks to the hard work of others, also offers the option of a completely open-source firmware version called ER9X.  The circuit diagram for this radio has also been published so "modding" it is a piece of cake -- if you want to add some extra hardware or software functionality.

The stock RF system is "okay" (far better than Spektrum's DSM2 for instance) but if you want some extra resilience you can also fit the FrSky FHSS 2.4GHz system which has the benefits of offering telemetry (two voltages and a serial data back-channel) plus user-definable failsafe.

Another bonus of this system is that it uses an RF module so, if you want potentially better performance outside "line of sight" (which 2.4GHz isn't so good for) you can fit a 35MHz FM or PCM module and use a matching receiver.

Plus recommended big 3 cell battery and charger?

The Turnigy Accucel 6 is about the best value "4-button charger" on the market.  It will charge the whole range of battery chemistries (Li-Ion, Lipoly, LiFePO4, Nicad, NiMH and Pb) with a power out put of up to 6A or 60W (whichever is the lower).

And what do people do about re-charging in the field?

These 4-button chargers will recharge a decent lipo pack in about 30 minutes (from flat) and a 50% discharged pack in about 15mins.

They have a boost-buck converter so you can charge up to 6-cell packs from a 11V-18V source.  Most people use their car-battery for this or, if you need truly portable recharge, one of those little 2-stroke generators with a 12V output will do the job.

The reality is that with a decent 3-cell 2200mAH lipoly battery pack costing around $14, it's just as easy to take half a dozen pre-charged batteries with you and swap them in/out as needed.

Feel free to drop me a line if you want more info or check my Youtube channel or RCModelReviews website.

[EEVblog]

The best value system on the market at the moment is the Turnigy 9X radio from HobbyKing (they have an Australian warehouse).

This is an incredibly elegant (from an EE perspective) bit of kit that uses an Atmel processor and, thanks to the hard work of others, also offers the option of a completely open-source firmware version called ER9X.  The circuit diagram for this radio has also been published so "modding" it is a piece of cake -- if you want to add some extra hardware or software functionality.

Awesome, the Turning 9X it is!
Out of stock in the Oz warehouse though.

The stock RF system is "okay" (far better than Spektrum's DSM2 for instance) but if you want some extra resilience you can also fit the FrSky FHSS 2.4GHz system which has the benefits of offering telemetry (two voltages and a serial data back-channel) plus user-definable failsafe.

Another bonus of this system is that it uses an RF module so, if you want potentially better performance outside "line of sight" (which 2.4GHz isn't so good for) you can fit a 35MHz FM or PCM module and use a matching receiver.

Sounds like a good option worth trying once we start to tweak the range.

The Turnigy Accucel 6 is about the best value "4-button charger" on the market.  It will charge the whole range of battery chemistries (Li-Ion, Lipoly, LiFePO4, Nicad, NiMH and Pb) with a power out put of up to 6A or 60W (whichever is the lower).

And what do people do about re-charging in the field?

These 4-button chargers will recharge a decent lipo pack in about 30 minutes (from flat) and a 50% discharged pack in about 15mins.

They have a boost-buck converter so you can charge up to 6-cell packs from a 11V-18V source.  Most people use their car-battery for this or, if you need truly portable recharge, one of those little 2-stroke generators with a 12V output will do the job.

The reality is that with a decent 3-cell 2200mAH lipoly battery pack costing around $14, it's just as easy to take half a dozen pre-charged batteries with you and swap them in/out as needed.

Yes, I suspect that is the best way. Waiting down in a wet canyon for batteries to charge is not fun, nor a productive use of time.

Thanks
Dave.

[IanJ]

Hi,

Forget traditional RC Tx control, this is how I control my own QuadCopter. For me the Quad is much easier to fly with a proper joystick.

Home made, Arduino powered.
PS. Not shown is the strap I wear to keep in comfortable.

[SgtRock]

Dear Dave:

--You may want to patent this one. When its finished you may be able to sell it to the military.

"I have had my results for a long time: but I do not yet now how I am to arrive at them."
Carl Friedrich Gauss 1777 1855

 
Best Regards
Clear Ether

[ChrisKiwi]

Here is a guy doing it for a living in New Zealand http://youtu.be/xXuXFGwzw0U This is another great You tube channel http://youtu.be/nMxzL7E3Z7s

[sonicj]

i get something like 32 hours on a 11.1V lipo in my modified Spektrum DX7.   

ianj, i never did get my version of your joystick project working 100% correctly.... i did fly with it though and its a blast! i think i may know where i messed up in the code now that its had a year or so to simmer. 
-sj

[ivan747]

Hi,

Forget traditional RC Tx control, this is how I control my own QuadCopter. For me the Quad is much easier to fly with a proper joystick.

Home made, Arduino powered.
PS. Not shown is the strap I wear to keep in comfortable.

Do you have a page with info on this? It seems quite interesting.

FOUND IT: http://www.ianjohnston.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32:project-rc-joystick-tx&catid=3:hobbies&Itemid=8

[philbx1]

Awesome, the Turning 9X it is!
Out of stock in the Oz warehouse though.

Nice informative posting by RCMR and I may just get one of these transmitters also.

Haven't searched that much myself for Quadcopters but this guy does great reviews - almost
as good as Dave's 

[EEVblog]

Nice informative posting by RCMR and I may just get one of these transmitters also.

Haven't searched that much myself for Quadcopters but this guy does great reviews - almost
as good as Dave's 

"this guy" IS our forums very own RCMR!

Dave.

[philbx1]

"this guy" IS our forums very own RCMR!
Dave.

Haha! So I just figured that out after watching another of his FPV videos.

Sorry Bruce, apologies. your reviews are as good as Dave's are

And Dave, your attention to detail and the forum is great!

[HLA-27b]

Watching the videos I think that a little bit of  dihedral  can do wonders to the stability of this thing.
BTW dihedral is the thing where they bend the wings of an aircraft up in order to bring the center of lift force up and the center of gravity down.
Like this:



Another thought, if the vertical sticks of the landing gear are brought beneath each motor, the landing footprint can be enlarged making for much safer landings. This also makes the sleds of the landing gear unnecessary saving some weight.

actually this one made use of both of these concepts

[RCMR]

I've got a series of quadcopter/multi-rotor reviews lined up for this summer.

There's the OpenPilot board, the PIPO board and fist-full of Chinese-made "no-name" boards and some other alternatives.

The Chinese are also knocking out RC multi-rotor hardware at an alarming rate and you can pick up some really good parts for give-away prices these days.

[robrenz]

Forget the unmanned quadcopter go for this:  http://www.engineeringontheedge.com/2011/11/man-flies-electric-multicopter-thanks-to-sensor-technology/