Author Topic: Disappointed In Rigol Service  (Read 14263 times)

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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #125 on: May 28, 2018, 06:26:47 am »
 :palm: :-DD
 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #126 on: May 28, 2018, 07:04:24 am »
Sadly, I've come to see how I have come to the conclusion that paid trolls to protect corporate interests by several now widespread techniques, can be seen to act even on this eevblog forum.

I urge anyone reading the postings here to first understand the technique of distracting the viewer from the original topic.

First, understand the definition of "Red Herring", a propaganda device that can be used to shift the topic of a post away from its original intent.

Secondly, I would strongly urge anyone to view this link. It is very short but very important video showing how website opinions that would try to criticize a company can usually be muted or trampled by corporate special interests:

Astroturf and Manipulation of Media:  A TEDX short talk on this subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU&feature=youtu.be
What can I say. If you see conspiracy in this thread, you should really visit a doctor.
 
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Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #127 on: May 29, 2018, 06:11:25 am »
What I can see in this thread, is that there are lots of members who find reactions that differs from their own, to be offensive enough to ridicule the person describing their reactions and opinions.

It is pack mentality, not a conspiracy.  It often feels like a conspiracy, because the opposition presents a shifting wall of people making singular snipes and then vanishing, rather than discussing the idea itself on its merits. It is a pack attack, not discussion.

It is very unfortunate, because actual real-world experiences, no matter what they are, are informative to those of us who do not have enough experience to set correct expectations yet.  There is a lot of value in those, and zero value in "You need psychiatric help" and "You're wrong, because I believe you are wrong, and I'm right" type of responses.

It is very surprising, too, because this forum seems to be quite friendly, and I have not seen the kind of "this is the way things are, and how they must be, and you should go away" type of reaction in other topics.  Therefore, seeing the responses as conspiracy-like, is not that odd.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #128 on: May 29, 2018, 07:10:43 am »
What I can see in this thread, is that there are lots of members who find reactions that differs from their own, to be offensive enough to ridicule the person describing their reactions and opinions.

It is pack mentality, not a conspiracy.  It often feels like a conspiracy, because the opposition presents a shifting wall of people making singular snipes and then vanishing, rather than discussing the idea itself on its merits. It is a pack attack, not discussion.

It is very unfortunate, because actual real-world experiences, no matter what they are, are informative to those of us who do not have enough experience to set correct expectations yet.  There is a lot of value in those, and zero value in "You need psychiatric help" and "You're wrong, because I believe you are wrong, and I'm right" type of responses.

It is very surprising, too, because this forum seems to be quite friendly, and I have not seen the kind of "this is the way things are, and how they must be, and you should go away" type of reaction in other topics.  Therefore, seeing the responses as conspiracy-like, is not that odd.

I never was offensive, in the whole course of this topic.  Fact that dozen people pointed out that you are wrong in your interpretation of how warranty and service is being done today simply means you are wrong. Not a single manufacturer of the scope would give you any other answer or different service in your case. Even for scopes that 3-4 times more expensive. Unless you paid additionally for some service level agreement type of maintenance contract with them. In which case, you would still need to comply with some rules as prescribed in said contract.

We are friendly. At least I know I am, coming from a position of truth and realistic expectations, trying to explain that you are wrong in this case.

I also expressed that I also, like you, would like better service.. But it ain't gonna happen.  I explained why, industry was different before, it was driven by military contracts that paid for support structure the way it was before. World changed. It no longer make sense to keep spare parts for the board where CPU cost more than whole motherboard with CPU already soldered in.
The old way will never come back, and it shouldn't. On old Tek scopes, there were many spare parts where single components would cost more than a whole new DS4014 by Rigol.

So, my friend,  it's time to go with the program, change with the world and adapt to how it works now. Resistance is futile....

Have a good one.

Sinisa

 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2018, 08:01:28 am »
I never was offensive, in the whole course of this topic.
If you do not consider your previous message, " :palm: :-DD ", offensive, then your definition is very different to mine.

We are friendly. At least I know I am
No. You exhibit the typical group mentality I mentioned before. You believe you are good, and therefore whatever you think must be right and good also.

You are definitely not friendly; you are simply not hostile to those you think are "with you".

So, my friend
Like they said in South Park, I'm not your friend, guy.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2018, 08:23:51 am »
What I can see in this thread, is that there are lots of members who find reactions that differs from their own, to be offensive enough to ridicule the person describing their reactions and opinions.

Different doesn't mean bad, this jargon is gaining popularity lately that its oftenly used and way over generalized, which it self a bad "and wrong" practice.

Say you like to walk in the street, and like to decapitate and chop off innocent people heads, yeah, you are different and definitely you're bad "and wrong" too.
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2018, 09:41:46 am »
Sadly, I've come to see how I have come to the conclusion that paid trolls to protect corporate interests by several now widespread techniques, can be seen to act even on this eevblog forum.

I urge anyone reading the postings here to first understand the technique of distracting the viewer from the original topic.

First, understand the definition of "Red Herring", a propaganda device that can be used to shift the topic of a post away from its original intent.

Secondly, I would strongly urge anyone to view this link. It is very short but very important video showing how website opinions that would try to criticize a company can usually be muted or trampled by corporate special interests:

Astroturf and Manipulation of Media:  A TEDX short talk on this subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU&feature=youtu.be


Whatever the 'paid troll' deal is here and all over the sinternet and especially Faceb00k...    >:D   

a solar powered Astroturf Meter kit would be a winner, or phone app
or browser plugin if dollars are short   :-[






 

Offline Paul Price

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #132 on: May 29, 2018, 10:28:35 am »
Thanks, Nominal Animal for not being intimidated by the bullies and the wolves and expressing your opinion.

IMHO, it is an obvious myth that a company can't do better for itself by bettering its customer support or that any attempt to to try better to help their customers must be an unconditional guaranteed path to business failure and bankruptcy.

This is the topic of the original post. But, once again, I have been astroturfed, and  labeled mentally ill, a conspiracy fanatic for just voicing my opinion about my experience with Rigol customer service.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #133 on: May 29, 2018, 12:35:31 pm »
But, once again, I have been astroturfed, and  labeled mentally ill, a conspiracy fanatic for just voicing my opinion about my experience with Rigol customer service.
First claim is exactly the reason to doubt your sanity and suspecting paranoia. Not to say, none of a few Rigol fans present on the forum ever posted in this tread.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #134 on: May 29, 2018, 01:40:25 pm »
My bank balance would really like to get in on this whole paid troll thing.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #135 on: May 29, 2018, 02:09:20 pm »
 :-// :wtf:  |O
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #136 on: May 29, 2018, 07:10:19 pm »
IMHO, it is an obvious myth that a company can't do better for itself by bettering its customer support or that any attempt to to try better to help their customers must be an unconditional guaranteed path to business failure and bankruptcy.

This is the topic of the original post.
I disagree with you there. To me the main topic of the original post was: "do you guys think it is unreasonable to expect a test gear manufacturer will provide free (or low cost) repair services after the expiration of the contracted warranty?". Given the OP opened the discussion with a rant and a rather inflated tone and did not explicitly state what he was trying to achieve with this, he opened the venue for opinions.

Quote
I own a Rigol bench multimeter DM3068 (and a thousands of dollars of other Rigol equipment).  It won't power up.  I called tech support and  they said to send it in for repair.  But they said the warranty period is three years, and that since my unit is a few months out of warranty, the flat repair rate is $360.  My experience with good companies is that they will stand behind their products and not seek to extract exorbitant repair fees if the product is not very long out of warranty.  I was thus surprised that Rigol refused to provide a warranty repair. Needless to say, I will not be buying Rigol any more.

Throughout the discussion many examples were given to state the case for and against Rigol (including yours) as well as their experience with other brands. All this was done to clarify that, in modern times with such fragmented market operating with lower profit margins, it shouldn't be taken for granted the same level of service obtained from manufacturers in past decades. Obviously there is a gap here that could be filled by one of them, but it shouldn't be taken for granted.

As for astroturfing: the more you stick around, the more you identify who prefers what - but really none of the regulars seems to be in a position of conspiring together to push forward a false narrative. It is really difficult to BS folks around here without hard data.

Besides, when asking for information or opinion, I really don't think that any single public forum should be taken with that level of seriousness, especially with so many other sources of information available: Youtube, blogs, other forums, etc.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 10:33:04 pm by rsjsouza »
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Offline Paul Price

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #137 on: May 29, 2018, 09:29:05 pm »
rsjsousa:  if you could edit your response a little, please, it seems to repeat sentences over and over. This doesn't help your make your point.
------------
Besides some other techniques utilized in astroturfing, the TEDx video points out how criticism is trampled by use of shaming, name-calling, inflammatory language and using other other manipulative ways to distract posters from the discussing the topic.
It can be misrepresenting what a poster said pr even resorting to attacking minutia like typos, or responding to a poster using insults and degrading language.

I expressed my thoughts, but then, totally unexpected, someone clowning me about my soldering..oh really?

Calling me delusional, saying I am conspiracy fanatic, that I am mentally ill, that I am an "old fart"..this is way out of line!

All this noise only serves to distract, annoy, helps to prevent people to choose not to comment  on the original topic, and that intimidation serves some purpose other than allowing discussing the merits or presenting opinions about  the original topic.

i don't claim there exists a conspiracy, but to exhibit such offensive behavior in reply, one can only ask, why would anyone bother to take the time to go so far out of their way to defend a company in this manner, unless they had some axe to grind..
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 10:29:15 pm by Paul Price »
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #138 on: May 29, 2018, 10:37:29 pm »
rsjsousa:  if you could edit your response a little, please, it seems to repeat sentences over and over. This doesn't help your make your point.
Duh, what an idiot (me, not you) - I tend to copy my replies to the clipboard before clicking on "post", so I can avoid any surprises (forum eating my reply, connection timeout, etc.). In this case I think I inadvertently pressed Ctrl-V.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #139 on: May 30, 2018, 12:00:24 am »

Besides some other techniques utilized in astroturfing, the TEDx video points out how criticism is trampled by use of shaming, name-calling, inflammatory language and using other other manipulative ways to distract posters from the discussing the topic.
It can be misrepresenting what a poster said pr even resorting to attacking minutia like typos, or responding to a poster using insults and degrading language.

I expressed my thoughts, but then, totally unexpected, someone clowning me about my soldering..oh really?

Calling me delusional, saying I am conspiracy fanatic, that I am mentally ill, that I am an "old fart"..this is way out of line!

All this noise only serves to distract, annoy, helps to prevent people to choose not to comment  on the original topic, and that intimidation serves some purpose other than allowing discussing the merits or presenting opinions about  the original topic.

i don't claim there exists a conspiracy, but to exhibit such offensive behavior in reply, one can only ask,
why would anyone bother to take the time to go so far out of their way to defend a company in this manner,
unless they had some axe to grind..



Mental issues or an easy paycheck, or both?   :-//


-----------------------

ok, it's obvious by now how they go to work on the messenger at most if not all forums, with Faceb00k being the clear winner and hands down best example of in your face organized trolling,
and no shortage of it on Youtube either.

It's always the same methods with a bit of good troll/bad troll thrown in to set up the unaware well meaning debater victim for the fall   >:D >:D


That aside, can anyone sort of hint on what the Astroturf gig might pay, and if any 'friends benefits'?  :-* :-*

i.e. as an example, if their 'donated, loaned, extended evaluation' or otherwise Rigol gear goes belly up, does Rigol cop the repair bill or new unit,

or does the peaved Astroturfer have to fork out from their own pocket, and endeavor to persevere with the same service their Astroturfed targets enjoy?   :rant:

 ???
 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2018, 06:16:22 am »
rsjsousa:  if you could edit your response a little, please, it seems to repeat sentences over and over. This doesn't help your make your point.
------------
Besides some other techniques utilized in astroturfing, the TEDx video points out how criticism is trampled by use of shaming, name-calling, inflammatory language and using other other manipulative ways to distract posters from the discussing the topic.
It can be misrepresenting what a poster said pr even resorting to attacking minutia like typos, or responding to a poster using insults and degrading language.

I expressed my thoughts, but then, totally unexpected, someone clowning me about my soldering..oh really?

Calling me delusional, saying I am conspiracy fanatic, that I am mentally ill, that I am an "old fart"..this is way out of line!

All this noise only serves to distract, annoy, helps to prevent people to choose not to comment  on the original topic, and that intimidation serves some purpose other than allowing discussing the merits or presenting opinions about  the original topic.

i don't claim there exists a conspiracy, but to exhibit such offensive behavior in reply, one can only ask, why would anyone bother to take the time to go so far out of their way to defend a company in this manner, unless they had some axe to grind..
Don't you realize that it's you who distracted this thread from the main topic more than anyone else?
Quote
I expressed my thoughts, but then, totally unexpected, someone clowning me about my soldering..oh really?
:palm: Suspected paranoia again. Nobody ridiculed your soldering skill. There was given an image of bad soldering as example why manufacturer would not trust someone to do DIY repair. In no way that post said anything about your skill.
Quote
Calling me delusional, saying I am conspiracy fanatic, that I am mentally ill, that I am an "old fart"..this is way out of line!
Suspected paranoia yet again. "Old farts" wasn't even said about you  |O. It was said by old man about some old people in general who forgot how things were in the past. Seriously, if you think that things said in general are an attack directly on YOU, there should be something wrong with you.

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/paranoia
Quote
Paranoid symptoms may range from mild to severe. They depend on the cause but, generally, a person who is paranoid may:
Be easily offended
Find it difficult to trust others
Not cope with any type of criticism
Assign harmful meanings to other people’s remarks
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia
Quote
Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself (e.g. the American colloquial phrase,"Everyone is out to get me").
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 07:26:25 am by wraper »
 

Offline Paul Price

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #141 on: May 30, 2018, 10:19:08 am »
I can see I can't win here. If I respond to your attack I am only feeding your fire and again this only serves to move the topic from customer service to emotional rants about the sanity of posters, with me in particular.
 But at the same time I can't help but wonder on the condition of your mind that allows you to elevate yourself to being a professional online diagnostic psychiatrist.

But let me speak for all posters here to thank you for taking time out of your busy day to carefully support your professional diagnosis.

However,  the fewer the words I can post in reply, the less gasoline into I willingly pour into your distracting  fire. I call it the "Troll Paradox". If you don't reply, your silence will serve to validate them, if you do reply you only serve to succeed their intent.

One thing is certain, you aren't getting your facts straight:

"It was said by old man about some old people in general who forgot how things were in the past."

1) There is no poster called "old man" on this topic.
2) And  your quote totally obviously reverses this imaginary posters point, "old farts" do remember, not forget, a time when customer service was better.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 10:25:05 am by Paul Price »
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2018, 10:28:40 am »

Paul Price does not come across as a person with paranoia issues, suspected or otherwise,

suspected disappointment with slack Rigol support is more likely 


Let's drop the usual snarling BS that's been sported UNCHECKED at this forum for far too long and stick to purpose of this post shall we?


Where are the Rigol people and their reps lurking at this forum, to sort something out for their loyal peaved customers? 

If Siglent and HP reps have balls to front up at this forum  :clap: :-+  and make an effort to help their customers, or at least explain why some things can't/won't happen asap,
I don't understand why Rigol with their large fan and user base can't make a brief appearance here for some old school damage control at the least  ::)

 ???


 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2018, 10:35:13 am »
1) There is no poster called "old man" on this topic.
2) And  your quote totally obviously reverses this imaginary posters point, "old farts" do remember, not forget, a time when customer service was better.
1. Old man means he is old (age), not forum nickname.
2. It was said about equipment price, that getting an oscilloscope was a dream for hobbyist.
Moreover:
Not accusing you, but here in this forum alone, few delusional old farts that lived thru that eras, sort of forget this history, and keep bashing the current "affordable" oscilloscope in this era.
It was particularly implied this is not about you.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2018, 10:45:52 am »
f Siglent and HP reps have balls to front up at this forum  :clap: :-+  and make an effort to help their customers, or at least explain why some things can't/won't happen asap,
I don't understand why Rigol with their large fan and user base can't make a brief appearance here for some old school damage control at the least  ::)
I just wonder what damage control? There was nothing done wrong on their part. Yes they could bend backwards to make customer happy, but it would be a bonus, not obligation. Again, I'm certainly not a Rigol fan. I wrote so much what won't make Rigol happy, that I'm among the leaders of bashing Rigol. I certainly made some Rigol fans loosing their cool, even calling me Nazi, LOL. Yet I still see nothing wrong in Rigol response in these situations.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #145 on: May 30, 2018, 10:53:44 am »

There's a difference between 'make an effort' and 'bend backwards'

either are better than ignoring the customer or hitting their hip pocket HARD  :--
 

Offline Paul Price

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2018, 11:00:36 am »
I don't like repeating myself, but can help to say I've posted,

"It is quite another thing that the customer has to bend-over forward to get repair help or be serviced."
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 11:16:18 am by Paul Price »
 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2018, 11:03:17 am »
I don't like repeating myself, but can help to say I've posted

"It is quite another thing that the customer has to bend-over forward to get repair help or service."
If you think that sending oscilloscope for free warranty repair is bending over backwards, then I have no words to say.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #148 on: May 30, 2018, 11:14:21 am »
I don't like repeating myself, but can help to say I've posted

"It is quite another thing that the customer has to bend-over forward to get repair help or service."
If you think that sending oscilloscope for free warranty repair is bending over backwards, then I have no words to say.

So you're ok with how Rigol have handled these customer requests for service, and no drama if same deal ever happens to you ?  ???

Then kindly let the shafted customers have their say here without obstruction, and perhaps the situation may improve for them and future customers   :clap:

 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #149 on: May 30, 2018, 11:24:16 am »
So you're ok with how Rigol have handled these customer requests for service, and no drama if same deal ever happens to you ?  ???

Then kindly let the shafted customers have their say here without obstruction, and perhaps the situation may improve for them and future customers   :clap:
If you want to do repair yourself, 95%+ of manufactures won't help you with this. It's simple, don't want to follow standard warranty/out of warranty repair procedure, then you on you're own. Rigol is nothing but a norm in this case. Yet some people are expecting way above average service/support from a budget manufacturer. And for some reason expect other people to support their outrage when things don't happen their way.
 


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