Author Topic: Disappointed In Rigol Service  (Read 14585 times)

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Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #100 on: May 14, 2018, 04:10:47 pm »
GW Instek has a limited lifetime warranty on their scopes which ends 5 years after they stop making the particular model.
AFAIK it's only on selected models and if you register the product after purchase. Say GDS-2000E series have only 3y warranty.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #101 on: May 14, 2018, 04:19:30 pm »
No, it doesn't work like that in the UK. Most manufacturer warranties are the same as in the EU. Plus we have the added bonus of having the opportunity to claim for something outside the warranty period, if it's unreasonable that it failed, although I do admit most people are ignorant of this and don't.
Then look: https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/warranty/products/uk-ireland-universal-warranty.html
Then look what Acer offers: https://www.acer.com/ac/en/GB/content/standard-warranty
All that is 1y will be 1y in UK and 2y in the rest of EU due to the law. HP also offers 1y on many products. Manufacturer may refuse to cover 2 years (like Apple) but seller is still responsible.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 05:11:01 pm by wraper »
 

Online ejeffrey

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #102 on: May 14, 2018, 06:13:00 pm »
You talked with dealer, not keysight. You said they wanted to sell you extended warranty. PSU not covered under normal warranty is nonsense and simply not true.

No, I talked with Keysight directly.  It turns out that I am not an idiot, and I know the difference between Keysight and a distributor.  Keysight told me that PSUs are not covered under the standard warranty.  They may have relayed information incorrectly, but that is exactly what they told me, directly from Keysight.  I literally have the emails, service order contract, and extended warranty quote directly from keysight.  I don't know why you insist that I am making this up and think you "know" what happened despite not being involved, but you are completely wrong.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #103 on: May 14, 2018, 07:33:07 pm »
I dunno what happened. I know 2 things: 1. it was after warranty expired. 2. PSU is covered under normal warranty.
As I said. They might think it's covered by service note for warranty extension. And when they discovered that it's not, failed to explain it properly.
 

Offline H.O

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #104 on: May 14, 2018, 08:34:45 pm »
FWIW: My DS4000 died about 5 years after me buying it.
I contacted RIGOL, they offered to take it in and look at it but said that based on my description of the problem it's PROBABLY the power supply that's failed and they happily sold me a replacement - which was shipped promptly.

Obviously the powersupply WASN'T the problem but that's beside the point and having a KNOWN working PSU allowed me to further diagnose the problem and eventually fix it.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #105 on: May 16, 2018, 09:20:58 am »

That's good to hear they at least made an effort to assist a customer  :-+ 

aka a possible repeat customer at that   :clap:
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #106 on: May 16, 2018, 09:31:26 am »
No, it doesn't work like that in the UK. Most manufacturer warranties are the same as in the EU. Plus we have the added bonus of having the opportunity to claim for something outside the warranty period, if it's unreasonable that it failed, although I do admit most people are ignorant of this and don't.
Then look: https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/warranty/products/uk-ireland-universal-warranty.html
Then look what Acer offers: https://www.acer.com/ac/en/GB/content/standard-warranty
All that is 1y will be 1y in UK and 2y in the rest of EU due to the law. HP also offers 1y on many products. Manufacturer may refuse to cover 2 years (like Apple) but seller is still responsible.
If that table is correct, then whilst the UK still is part of the EU, the warranty should also comply with EU law, unless the UK has an opt-out.

Also note that the warranty is in addition to what's required by consumer law. Even after the warranty has expired, it may still be reasonable for the manufacturer to cover some things, if it's deemed unreasonable for them to fail.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2018, 10:10:54 am »
No, it doesn't work like that in the UK. Most manufacturer warranties are the same as in the EU. Plus we have the added bonus of having the opportunity to claim for something outside the warranty period, if it's unreasonable that it failed, although I do admit most people are ignorant of this and don't.
Then look: https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/warranty/products/uk-ireland-universal-warranty.html
Then look what Acer offers: https://www.acer.com/ac/en/GB/content/standard-warranty
All that is 1y will be 1y in UK and 2y in the rest of EU due to the law. HP also offers 1y on many products. Manufacturer may refuse to cover 2 years (like Apple) but seller is still responsible.
If that table is correct, then whilst the UK still is part of the EU, the warranty should also comply with EU law, unless the UK has an opt-out.

Also note that the warranty is in addition to what's required by consumer law. Even after the warranty has expired, it may still be reasonable for the manufacturer to cover some things, if it's deemed unreasonable for them to fail.
UK is a special snowflake within EU, just as always.
Quote
This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right. National rules in your country may give you extra protection: however, any deviation from EU rules must always be in the consumer's best interest.
UK very vaguely interprets this EU requirement.
Quote
Guarantees and returns – United Kingdom
Legal guarantee
How long is the legal guarantee for new and second-hand goods?
The duration is 6 years in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and 5 years in Scotland. This applies to new and second-hand goods.
This sure sounds better than:
Quote
Guarantees and returns – Germany
Legal guarantee
How long is the legal guarantee for new and second-hand goods?
The duration is normally 2 years but can be reduced to 1 year for second-hand goods.
Except it's the same as comparing apples vs oranges. Those years are not the same. In Germany, it's a minimum, period. In UK, it's basically
the product should last for a reasonable length of time and be of a reasonable quality for the price paid.
within those years.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 10:21:31 am by wraper »
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #108 on: May 16, 2018, 10:57:33 am »
so this thread will not end yet? and turned into Rigol China should follow UK/EU regulation? so since Rigol China is not complying, why dont UK/EU ban their products? but since its not banned by them, then UK/EU is to be blamed, go sue them.
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Offline madires

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #109 on: May 16, 2018, 12:55:38 pm »
Hint: The EU legal warranty applies to the seller, not to the manufacturer.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #110 on: May 16, 2018, 12:58:13 pm »
Warranty on second hand goods?!? Does that open a case for eBay and private transactions as well?
If that is true, I am in favor of some consumer protection laws but that sounds quite absurd - I would rather throw a used equipment away instead of risk being exposed to a lawsuit years after a sale.
Consumer protection at the expense of consumer buying power...
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #111 on: May 16, 2018, 01:12:51 pm »
Warranty on second hand goods?!? Does that open a case for eBay and private transactions as well?
If that is true, I am in favor of some consumer protection laws but that sounds quite absurd - I would rather throw a used equipment away instead of risk being exposed to a lawsuit years after a sale.
Consumer protection at the expense of consumer buying power...

This doesn't apply to private transactions to my knowledge. That would be fairly mad.
 
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Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #112 on: May 16, 2018, 01:28:18 pm »
I commented my experience with Rigol, I had until a couple of days ago a problem of compensation of probes. here is my problem documented, a month after sending mail to rigol china they got in touch with me, asking me for images, videos and tests performed on the failure, since I requested being under warranty to sell me a new pcb since shipping costs high sun response of rigol
They told me what were the steps to follow in search of the defect, which fortunately seems to have been solved, that in case of being a problem of main board, they would send me one free of charge, I would only pay $ 75 shipping cost, but I kept in mind that it would void the warranty, but they understood my problem, so I followed the steps for now they hit the target with the problem and it works perfectly. so with me rigol china, he behaved well not so Tequipment that only limited himself to respond "COMUNIQUESE CON RIGOL."

in spanish
comento mi experiencia con Rigol, tuve hasta hace un par de dias un problema de compenzacion de sondas. aca esta documentado mi problema, al mes de enviar mail a rigol china se pusueron en contacto conmigo, pidiendome imagenes, videos y testeos realizados sobre la falla, ya que yo solicitaba estando en garantia que me vendieran una nueva pcb ya que los costos de envio sol altos. respuesta de rigol
Me dijieron cuales eran los pasos a seguir en busca del defecto, que por suerte parece haberce solucionado, que en caso de ser un problema de main board, me enviarian una sin cargo alguno, solo abonoaria U$S 75 de costo de envio, pero que tuviera en cuenta que anularia la garantia, pero comprendian mi problema, asi que segui los pasos por ahora dieron en el blanco con el problema y funciona perfectamente. asi que conmigo rigol china, se comporto bien no asi Tequipment que solo se limito a responde "COMUNIQUESE CON RIGOL."
 

Offline TassiloH

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #113 on: May 16, 2018, 01:49:19 pm »
Warranty on second hand goods?!? Does that open a case for eBay and private transactions as well?
If that is true, I am in favor of some consumer protection laws but that sounds quite absurd - I would rather throw a used equipment away instead of risk being exposed to a lawsuit years after a sale.
Consumer protection at the expense of consumer buying power...

This doesn't apply to private transactions to my knowledge. That would be fairly mad.

It "kind of" applies: A private seller is allowed to exclude the legal guarantee, but if he doesn't, the provisions of the law apply. That is why on ebay (at least in Germany) in offers from private sellers you'll find some kind of warranty exclusion.
 
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Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #114 on: May 16, 2018, 02:01:28 pm »
Hint: The EU legal warranty applies to the seller, not to the manufacturer.
meaning the sellers will be at lost? they will provide free repair, but main Rigol China will charge them for the repair if they choose to send the item back to mainland. i dont find it fair to the sellers. Anyway, Rigol has nothing to do with th regulation. either sellers dont distribute Rigol products, or they need to accept the consequences.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #115 on: May 16, 2018, 02:07:18 pm »
Hint: The EU legal warranty applies to the seller, not to the manufacturer.
meaning the sellers will be at lost? they will provide free repair, but main Rigol China will charge them for the repair if they choose to send the item back to mainland. i dont find it fair to the sellers. Anyway, Rigol has nothing to do with th regulation. either sellers dont distribute Rigol products, or they need to accept the consequences.
Rigol warranty exceeds minimum required by law.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #116 on: May 16, 2018, 02:18:51 pm »
Yep, it's a business risk. But the sellers consider those additional costs in their calculation, i.e. you , as the customer, will pay a little bit more for the luxury of a legal warranty. And I'd like to add that I meant commercial sellers. Private sellers are exempted. There's a little legal twist for used stuff sold privately as explained by TassiloH, but it's a no-brainer.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #117 on: May 16, 2018, 02:28:57 pm »
Rigol warranty exceeds minimum required by law.

That's an additional commercial warranty in case of the EU and the manufacturer is quite free to define the terms and conditions for that. If your DSO breaks within the legal warranty period you can choose between the legal and commercial warranty. To reduce costs some commercial sellers will try to push you towards the commercial warranty.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #118 on: May 16, 2018, 02:36:43 pm »
Rigol warranty exceeds minimum required by law.

That's an additional commercial warranty in case of the EU and the manufacturer is quite free to define the terms and conditions for that. If your DSO breaks within the legal warranty period you can choose between the legal and commercial warranty. To reduce costs some commercial sellers will try to push you towards the commercial warranty.
If you bring it to the seller, seller will just forward it to Rigol. No difference, except if you cover the shipping on your own.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #119 on: May 16, 2018, 04:10:11 pm »
In case of the EU legal warranty the seller has to pay for shipping and what have you. The commercial warranty may include a clause that you have to pay for shipping. There is more, at least in Germany. The legal warranty demands a repair within a reasonable time, like three weeks (-> compensation or loaner unit if overdue). The commercial warranty may define thee months as acceptable.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #120 on: May 16, 2018, 06:03:09 pm »
Hint: The EU legal warranty applies to the seller, not to the manufacturer.
meaning the sellers will be at lost? they will provide free repair, but main Rigol China will charge them for the repair if they choose to send the item back to mainland. i dont find it fair to the sellers. Anyway, Rigol has nothing to do with th regulation. either sellers dont distribute Rigol products, or they need to accept the consequences.
No, that is not the case.

In UK and EU law it's the seller, who the consumer has made the contract with, not the manufacturer.

The seller doesn't lose out, because they made a contract with the manufacturer, who are obliged to provide them with a refund, replacement or repair.

Warranty on second hand goods?!? Does that open a case for eBay and private transactions as well?
If that is true, I am in favor of some consumer protection laws but that sounds quite absurd - I would rather throw a used equipment away instead of risk being exposed to a lawsuit years after a sale.
Consumer protection at the expense of consumer buying power...
I believe that business often throw decent goods away because they don't want to risk warranty claims. I do think it's for the best though. It means any company in the business of selling used goods has to thoroughly inspect them and ensure they're reliable before selling them on. It helps to keep broken goods off the market. There's still a healthy market for second hand cars in the UK for example. Business buy off private individuals (no warranty), then sell them on at a considerable markup, which is justified by providing a warranty. If there were no legal obligation for used car businesses to provide a warranty, then there would be no incentive for the consumer to buy from a used car dealer, rather than a private individual.

Personally, I'd never but a brand new vehicle: there's a huge depreciation in value and although there's a warranty, there's no guarantee there won't be and problems. I'd rather buy a used vehicle, of a known good make and model, a couple of years old. I still get a warranty and I make less of a loss when I sell it on, probably for scrap.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #121 on: May 16, 2018, 09:25:24 pm »
Warranty on second hand goods?!? Does that open a case for eBay and private transactions as well?
If that is true, I am in favor of some consumer protection laws but that sounds quite absurd - I would rather throw a used equipment away instead of risk being exposed to a lawsuit years after a sale.
Consumer protection at the expense of consumer buying power...
I believe that business often throw decent goods away because they don't want to risk warranty claims. I do think it's for the best though. It means any company in the business of selling used goods has to thoroughly inspect them and ensure they're reliable before selling them on. It helps to keep broken goods off the market.
The way I see this, an umbrella fixed warranty for anything regardless of the nature of the product negatively impacts the system: businesses that need to divest still usable capital goods will pay to companies that will most likely either fill the landfill or simply export to recycling poor regions of the world. This tends to increase local consumerism if the goods are computers, monitors and other household items that could easily be recycled locally, given that local repair shops may become inviable. 

There's still a healthy market for second hand cars in the UK for example. Business buy off private individuals (no warranty), then sell them on at a considerable markup, which is justified by providing a warranty. If there were no legal obligation for used car businesses to provide a warranty, then there would be no incentive for the consumer to buy from a used car dealer, rather than a private individual.
Used car market is also a healthy market in my home country (Brazil) as well as here in the US, where the warranties are either negotiated or bare minimum (90 days) - the risk then becomes based on the amount you want to pay for the car by means of extended warranties or other deails. 

Personally, I'd never but a brand new vehicle: there's a huge depreciation in value and although there's a warranty, there's no guarantee there won't be and problems. I'd rather buy a used vehicle, of a known good make and model, a couple of years old. I still get a warranty and I make less of a loss when I sell it on, probably for scrap.
No wonder; I would do the same if I had two more years of warranty on a product where the manufacturer's warranty was long gone; well, provided the retailer is still in business then. :)
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Online Zero999

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #122 on: May 16, 2018, 10:32:30 pm »
Warranty on second hand goods?!? Does that open a case for eBay and private transactions as well?
If that is true, I am in favor of some consumer protection laws but that sounds quite absurd - I would rather throw a used equipment away instead of risk being exposed to a lawsuit years after a sale.
Consumer protection at the expense of consumer buying power...
I believe that business often throw decent goods away because they don't want to risk warranty claims. I do think it's for the best though. It means any company in the business of selling used goods has to thoroughly inspect them and ensure they're reliable before selling them on. It helps to keep broken goods off the market.
The way I see this, an umbrella fixed warranty for anything regardless of the nature of the product negatively impacts the system: businesses that need to divest still usable capital goods will pay to companies that will most likely either fill the landfill or simply export to recycling poor regions of the world. This tends to increase local consumerism if the goods are computers, monitors and other household items that could easily be recycled locally, given that local repair shops may become inviable. 
I agree with there are downsides.

Quote
There's still a healthy market for second hand cars in the UK for example. Business buy off private individuals (no warranty), then sell them on at a considerable markup, which is justified by providing a warranty. If there were no legal obligation for used car businesses to provide a warranty, then there would be no incentive for the consumer to buy from a used car dealer, rather than a private individual.
Used car market is also a healthy market in my home country (Brazil) as well as here in the US, where the warranties are either negotiated or bare minimum (90 days) - the risk then becomes based on the amount you want to pay for the car by means of extended warranties or other deails. 
That's not good for the consumer, but at least the seller is obliged to give some kind of warranty.

Quote
Personally, I'd never but a brand new vehicle: there's a huge depreciation in value and although there's a warranty, there's no guarantee there won't be and problems. I'd rather buy a used vehicle, of a known good make and model, a couple of years old. I still get a warranty and I make less of a loss when I sell it on, probably for scrap.
No wonder; I would do the same if I had two more years of warranty on a product where the manufacturer's warranty was long gone; well, provided the retailer is still in business then. :)

I think you've missed the point here. As far as the law is concerned in most countries: the manufacturer warranty means nothing to the end user. It's the seller who is responsible for the warranty and any after sales support, since the seller is the person the consumer handed the money to and got a receipt from. I admit I don't know about the law in the US, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's similar, even if companies want to keep the consumer ignorant.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #123 on: May 17, 2018, 11:52:12 am »
Personally, I'd never but a brand new vehicle: there's a huge depreciation in value and although there's a warranty, there's no guarantee there won't be and problems. I'd rather buy a used vehicle, of a known good make and model, a couple of years old. I still get a warranty and I make less of a loss when I sell it on, probably for scrap.
No wonder; I would do the same if I had two more years of warranty on a product where the manufacturer's warranty was long gone; well, provided the retailer is still in business then. :)

I think you've missed the point here. As far as the law is concerned in most countries: the manufacturer warranty means nothing to the end user. It's the seller who is responsible for the warranty and any after sales support, since the seller is the person the consumer handed the money to and got a receipt from. I admit I don't know about the law in the US, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's similar, even if companies want to keep the consumer ignorant.
The way I know it is that, while the retailers are the ones performing the services and retaining the money, the manufacturers are the ones backing up their retailer network. In practice, you can send your car to be repaired under the manufacturer's warranty period at any brand retailer shop. This would not happen if each retailer was left to fend off by themselves.

I have experienced myself and seen friends go through similar scenarios that required direct manufacturer intervention due to manufacturing/assembly defects straight from the plant.
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Offline Paul Price

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Re: Disappointed In Rigol Service
« Reply #124 on: May 28, 2018, 01:51:10 am »
Sadly, I've come to see how I have come to the conclusion that paid trolls to protect corporate interests by several now widespread techniques, can be seen to act even on this eevblog forum.

I urge anyone reading the postings here to first understand the technique of distracting the viewer from the original topic.

First, understand the definition of "Red Herring", a propaganda device that can be used to shift the topic of a post away from its original intent.

Secondly, I would strongly urge anyone to view this link. It is very short but very important video showing how website opinions that would try to criticize a company can usually be muted or trampled by corporate special interests:

Astroturf and Manipulation of Media:  A TEDX short talk on this subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 02:55:53 am by Paul Price »
 
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