Author Topic: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project  (Read 10102 times)

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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« on: June 03, 2019, 04:33:39 am »

This is to document a practical and modestly costing DIY Vapor Phase Soldering Project using a Domestic Electric Frying pan.    There has been a lengthy discussion ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/practical-diy-or-modest-cost-vapor-phase-does-it-exist-yet/ ).

After quite a lot of experimenting, i've been able to get very good Vapour Phase Re flow using a domestic frying pan.    My experiments have used a wide collection of bits and pieces to 'hack it together' but now i want to tidy it all up so its easy to use and replicate ( i now want to make quite a few of these ).


Vapour Phase Reflow works by heating fluid ( Galden HS230 ), to boiling and creating a cloud of 'hot vapour'.    The hot vapor condenses on the PCB and parts and causes it to heat up and solder.   There are some advantages of using this technique.  Its hard to overheat the boards/parts as the maximum temp they reach is 230C, which is the temp of the vapour.     Vapour Phase in fact is not a new tech, it was the first reflow tech used when surface mount was invented. However it used some nasty fluids that were very Unfreindly. Now there are some much better fluids, which are much more inert and safe.     Commerical VP is an expensive thing to buy.  There have been a couple of attempts at low cost VP but the one which i bought was of very poor quality and implementation.

Its not a particulary complex project,  you need to control the heating of an element and then control turning on a fan to cool it. 
For this project, i've decided not to create an entire microcontroller system, but just enough electronics so you can connect your favourite single board computer, or in fact PC via USB to it. My experiments have been controlled with code written in python.

The parts;

(a) A frying pan - I've settled on using a Breville  BEF560BSS.  (https://www.breville.com/nz/en/products/woks-skillets-deep-fryers/bef560.html).  Its highly probable that other pans will work,  however there was a few things about this one that make it quite attractive.   The list price on this pan is $A269, but i got mine for $80, ( dented box ) but i've regulally seen them for around $120
  • Its has a nice even power distribution in the pan. Theres not really any signifncant hot spots.   
  • Its lid is nicely domed, and any vapor that hits it, seems to roll down the lid. The lid has a nice lip on it, as well, that seals it quite well
  • Its got plenty of power, 2400W
  • Its easy to remove the cover from the bottom, ( more on that later, but it really helps cooling )


(b) a big decent AC Fan.   ( GoldAir GCDF140B ).   You want something that can really drive a lot of air, getting enough air over the base of the pan when you want to cool it down, is really important. About $40-50

(c) Some Galden HS230 Fluid  ( expensive, but you don't need much, and if you are careful, you dont' consume much

(d) A couple of Solid State relays, and heatsinks.    I'm using Fotek  SSR-25DA-H.  You need to be careful to get genuine ones. Fotek is a good brand but there are 100's of fake copies on aliexpress/ebay.    These will set you back about $12 for the SSR's and $3 for a power supply.

(e) In my setup, i'm going to wire in a couple of circuit breakers, and an RCD all on a Dinrail just to make it a bit safer as i intend to use this in a commerical setting where I need to have some compliance and OSH.

(f) A controller system, to glue it all together and control it.   I've decided that instead of trying to code it into a dedicated microcontroller ( you coudl fesibly do that ), that it will get plugged into 'somethign' that has a usb port.   My codes in Python.

I've sketched up the schematic for the controller board, which is attached.   A MCP2221A provides an I2C / USB Bridge.  There are a really good set of librarys for python to use with this. ( https://pypi.org/project/PyMCP2221A/ ) and it seems to work well with Windows and linux ( so good for a raspberry PI etc ).

MCP9600's are for connecting a K type Thermocouple to.    At present i'm only using 1, but  i'm provisioning space for up to four, as it might be useful to add extra measuring points later.   If we dont' need them, it will just be blank spots on the PCB.   I've also put a MCP23017 GPIO expander on it, which will be used to control those SSR's as well as provide some additional ports if you want to hook up extra things.. I'm thnking i'll put a stop/start button and maybe some indicator leds on.  Its easy to put in now, and since its programmed in python really easy to add/modify to your hearts content.

Next job is to design a pcb..  I'm going to make it so it so it will have a coupel of DIN rail mounts on it, as i intend to mount all my peices on a Din Rail inside a nice tidy box.

I've reserved the next two posts, so i can add a BOM, and schematic's and stuff.

This project is entirely open.   We will see where it goes, at the moment, i'm building it for my own use and if anyone else gets any interest out of it, then awesome..


I remember a time when we thought, meh, you can't use a home toaster oven to solder.. thats insane.

The project has taken some interesting twists and turns, but its now got simple again,  I played with water cooling, and different size pans and systems.   What i know now is that we can acehive a nice reflow profile, that can be cooled sufficently and that there is not a noticeable galden loss.







« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 05:51:25 am by mrpackethead »
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2019, 05:27:22 am »
Links to various parts:

usb/I2C bridge

https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/MCP2221a

thermocouple Interface IC
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/MCP9600-Family-Data-Sheet-20005426E.pdf

SSR
http://www.fotek.com.tw/pdf/2013515_37275332.PDF
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Authentic-original-SSR-25DA-SSR-25DA-H-FOTEK-Single-phase-solid-state-relay-25A/32834260762.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3aef4c4d1mMeEX

SSR Heatsink
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pc-Single-Phase-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-Aluminum-Heat-Sink-Dissipation-Radiator-Newest-Suitable-for-10A/32843767354.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3aef4c4d1mMeEX

K Type Thermocouples
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/K-type-Thermocouple-Stainless-Steel-probe-Thermocouple-100mm-200mm-2m-Cable-Wire-Length-Thermocouple-0-400C/32956256758.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dwPZW2x



Possible Frying Pans


Sunbeam FP8950 ( https://www.sunbeam.co.nz/Ellise-Stainless-Steel-Banquet-1.aspx )  Not tested, but looks promising.
Breville breville-bef560bss .  This is what i've been working with, and does a good job.

It seems like it is not a good idea to use a Frying pan that has a non-stick coating, as this might be incompatible with Galden.   

Options for 110V ( USA ).    It seems that in NA, that Frying pans typicaly only go up to 1800W or so.  That should be enough power, i've found that i'm tyically using less than half the power of the 2400W.   It might require a little parameter changing but fundementally it should not pose a problem.     If anyone finds a suitable pan that you can buy in the USA, let me know!



« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 01:16:53 am by mrpackethead »
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2019, 09:57:34 am »
PCB designed. Its 43 x 88mm and is designed to be screwed onto some din rail mounts.

Altium Files attached.

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Offline Kean

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2019, 05:37:18 pm »
Thanks for documenting this project - I'm going to give it a go  :-+
 

Offline jeremy

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2019, 11:02:10 am »
I just bought one from amazon AU  :-+
 

Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2019, 11:13:57 am »
What part of Oz jeremy?
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Offline jeremy

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2019, 11:21:08 am »
Brisbane. I’ve been tinkering with vapour phase for ages (I was one of the posters in the original thread) but I never came up with something I was happy with. My latest project was to basically build one of these electric frypans from scratch because I was worried how it would stand up to ~250C. But it seems you’ve found a winner.
 

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2019, 11:48:24 am »
I'm going to get the pcb design fabed up shortly and pending it all being good i'll make up a few more boards.

Suggest that you order the bits from Aliexpress as they will take the longest to get.


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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2019, 11:49:28 am »
Wonder if Dave @EEVblog would be up for making a video of this once we have something to play with.
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Offline Kean

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2019, 03:18:08 pm »
I just bought one from amazon AU  :-+

Me too - I think I got the last one at the discounted price  ;D
 

Offline intabits

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2019, 10:36:14 am »
For the "poor man's version", inclined (by necessity) to mess about with some mechanicals, maybe the hotplates from one of these could be used with any metal dish of suitable characteristics? I imagine there would be a lot more choice in dishes when the electric heater requirement is eliminated.  (Maybe with a heat spreader plate/heatsink between hotplate and dish)


(sorry, quick nighttime photo)

I've found a few of these by the side of the road for free.
Or similar hotplates might be had from and old electric stove...
 

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2019, 07:41:52 pm »
Anything is possible I guess.   Explore possibilities and see what happens.   A glass lid is handy.  You might find a suitable frying pan for lot a lot.   The hardest thing is the cooling. You might be able to repurpose a desk fan
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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2019, 09:11:57 am »
Hi, great information. Really appreciate the work you have put in to this and making it open source. I have some Galden HS230 and have been looking for a starting point to get a system up and running.

Is there any python code available yet for experimenting with?
Thanks
Trev
 

Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2019, 08:29:24 pm »
SHi, Sorry that i went quiet on everyone. I've had been sucked into a project that did'tn let me breath, but escaped on Friday. :-) Many of you will know what that is like. But they paid well.

So, an update.    I have pcbs, and all the parts to do a build.   I'm actually going to use the Frying pan to build the frying pan controller boards.   I've got a hacky hack hack controller set up and while its ugly, it does actually work.   The SSR's and other bits have arrived from Aliexpress, they all came on free or nearly free shipping so it does take some time.

I'm going to set up my system on a DIN rail,  and house it all in a polycarb box.  Theres mains ( 240VAC ) in this project, you need to show the appropriate amount of care.      I know we all sometimes go.. Sigh Another Warning but it has to be said.   If your not confident with working with the mains, find someone who is to help you through it.    I will be setting up my controller with both an RCD and and internal circuit breaker.

Software wise, the project will use Python to control / measure everything.   I'm going to use the PyMCP2221A driver.   So far i've been able to communicate with the Driver and set the GPIO bits.  I did attempt to do some I2C stuff, but it did'tn work at the first attempt and I had run out of time.   

Python from a pc is just one of many options..  The I2C bus is exposed on a header, so if you wanted you could connect a microprocessor,   or you could use a raspberry PI..   Eventually i think i'll probalby use a Rpi, and stick it in the box, and then network connect it.




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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2019, 08:39:31 pm »
Quote
The SSR's and other bits have arrived from Aliexpress
That's not a good idea at all. Almost guaranteed to be counterfeit with triac rated <50% of current written on SSR and dodgy insulation.
 

Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2019, 01:41:12 am »
Quote
The SSR's and other bits have arrived from Aliexpress
That's not a good idea at all. Almost guaranteed to be counterfeit with triac rated <50% of current written on SSR and dodgy insulation.

This particually supplier is selling the genuine item.  I have purchased from them before and have taken them apart and checked. ( once you open them its very apparent ).   If you see the notes above i have already mentioned this issue.   There are many clones out there.  Not just on ali, but also ebay.  First clue if they are about $2-3, they absolutely are fake.
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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2019, 07:22:06 pm »
Great to hear things are picking up again. Is there any special control loop/pid code implementation going to be required? I think that is the only bit that might be a little bit tricky.



 

Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2019, 07:51:12 pm »
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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2019, 08:19:11 pm »
The simplePID is pretty cool. Seems ideal to be able to develop with a PC and then transfer to anything that runs python. Really flexible approach.

A few months back I bought a largish stainless steel pan with glass lid. I think its about 23cm diameter and not far off tall. I do not have a heater for it yet. The Breville unit you are using does not seem to be available in the uk or at least not without a high shipping cost.

Anyone recommend a hotplate that would be beefy enough for this system. Sounds like I might need a few kw to get something working if I am to be similar to what is being used for this project. I quite like the pan so would like to find a hotplate. I think it being relatively tall should help with cooling.


 

Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2019, 08:32:28 pm »
Quote
A few months back I bought a largish stainless steel pan with glass lid. I think its about 23cm diameter and not far off tall. I do not have a heater for it yet. The Breville unit you are using does not seem to be available in the uk or at least not without a high shipping cost.

^^^ this topic will be something that everyones going to have to work through depending on where they are located.    For those in AU/NZ the breville is easy to get, and there is a similar zip.     You just have to go and look to see whats about.  Theres not an exact requirement to use the the same model.   The 'harder' part is that you need to find something that does not have a non-stick coating. ( or be prepared to remove it ), as it appears that might be an issue.  ( i have not tested that, mine is non-stick ).

Quote
Anyone recommend a hotplate that would be beefy enough for this system. Sounds like I might need a few kw to get something working if I am to be similar to what is being used for this project. I quite like the pan so would like to find a hotplate. I think it being relatively tall should help with cooling.

I doubt you'll need several kw.   It probaby will work on signficantly less.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 08:39:48 pm by mrpackethead »
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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2019, 09:06:37 pm »
Reworking aluminium PCBs sounds like a nightmare!

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on Today at 07:53:07 pm
I have one of those - they are awesome for reworking aluminium PCBs.
 

Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2019, 09:16:54 pm »
Quite possible that it will work.    For me being able to do a full panel ( roughly A4 page size ) is something that is important for me. And the breville does the job. Its just worked out to be a *really* easy build as i dont' need to find other bits and pieces to fit. 

I'm not sure why but i am struggling to find similar models online for sale in the UK and US



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Re: DIY Vapour Phase Frying Pan Project
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2019, 09:18:18 pm »
I use Vapour Phase for doing High Power LEDS on solid copper substrate pcbs.  Its ideal.  But reworking them.. Thats a nightmare.
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