Author Topic: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)  (Read 58083 times)

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Offline danielbriggs

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #200 on: December 19, 2019, 11:24:18 pm »
I love the new MicroPython update you posted @ CrowdSupply.

The diode test example got me thinking: I test a lot of laser diodes in my line of work, and characterising their PI curve is often useful. However to measure laser power I have a specialised power meter [either thermopile or calibrated photodiode depending on type of laser under test].
These meters generally output 0-2V full scale.

Using your BB3 setup like this would be tremendously helpful... to accurately meter: voltage, current and optical power (via scaled analog input voltage from power meter). And get the script to only test to certain current limits or optical power limits etc.

Question: could your system be extended to easily incorporate an analog input? (Or does it already?)
This would open up many many useful doors :)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 11:25:59 pm by danielbriggs »
 

Offline AlanS

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #201 on: December 20, 2019, 03:32:21 am »
I love the new MicroPython update you posted @ CrowdSupply.

The diode test example got me thinking: I test a lot of laser diodes in my line of work, and characterising their PI curve is often useful. However to measure laser power I have a specialised power meter [either thermopile or calibrated photodiode depending on type of laser under test].
These meters generally output 0-2V full scale.

Using your BB3 setup like this would be tremendously helpful... to accurately meter: voltage, current and optical power (via scaled analog input voltage from power meter). And get the script to only test to certain current limits or optical power limits etc.

Question: could your system be extended to easily incorporate an analog input? (Or does it already?)
This would open up many many useful doors :)

There are also the doors that it will open with additional modules. It seems that a mooted multiple channel data-logger may be just what you need. The whole ecosystem that Envox is building will help a lot of us get our products to production.
 

Offline danielbriggs

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #202 on: December 20, 2019, 10:05:17 am »

There are also the doors that it will open with additional modules. It seems that a mooted multiple channel data-logger may be just what you need. The whole ecosystem that Envox is building will help a lot of us get our products to production.

That's the main reason I got involved :-+
 

Online IanJ

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #203 on: December 20, 2019, 11:31:15 am »
Hi all,

Did I read somewhere that 3rd parties will be able to design, build and sell modules. If so, will there be a schematic/layout template be available at some point.

Ian.
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Offline prasimix

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #204 on: December 20, 2019, 11:43:42 am »
Hi Ian, that is correct. Everything is provided as open source, open hardware. Therefore everyone is invited not just to make new modules but to clone and sell everything what is done so far. New module has to follow DIB v1.0 specification, and if DIB v2.0 is ever happen it will be backward compatible with v1.0.
First step toward module "template" can be found here: https://github.com/eez-open/modular-psu/tree/master/DIB%20v1.0

We'll do our best to assist one in integration with firmware and the rest of the system.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 11:45:14 am by prasimix »
 

Offline prasimix

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #205 on: December 20, 2019, 12:04:34 pm »
Question: could your system be extended to easily incorporate an analog input? (Or does it already?)
This would open up many many useful doors :)

Actually one analog input already exists but is not wisely deployed: it can be used only to control output voltage (i.e. remote programming). I've selected 4-ch ADC at the very beginning and didn't know in that time where to use all inputs. Usage of two is obvious: monitoring output voltage and current (U_MON and I_MON), but remaining two are used for monitoring DAC outputs (U_SET and I_SET).
Even with current configuration by adding another 1-to-2 mux (like SN74LVC1G3157) it could be possible to use existing Rprog input not only for controlling output voltage but as general purpose analog input. In that case U_SET or I_SET monitoring has to be disabled.
 
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Offline danielbriggs

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #206 on: December 20, 2019, 01:31:55 pm »
Actually one analog input already exists but is not wisely deployed: it can be used only to control output voltage (i.e. remote programming). I've selected 4-ch ADC at the very beginning and didn't know in that time where to use all inputs. Usage of two is obvious: monitoring output voltage and current (U_MON and I_MON), but remaining two are used for monitoring DAC outputs (U_SET and I_SET).
Even with current configuration by adding another 1-to-2 mux (like SN74LVC1G3157) it could be possible to use existing Rprog input not only for controlling output voltage but as general purpose analog input. In that case U_SET or I_SET monitoring has to be disabled.

Ah nice!
Maybe I'll wait for a "ADC / AIO module" once the 2x units arrive to extend idea this further.
Good to know it's on the road map though + keep up the good work.

I really hope you reach the funding target; I'll be most disappointed for everyone involved if not.
 
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Offline jbb

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #207 on: December 24, 2019, 12:33:40 am »
Test scripts on board does look like a win, and Python is quite easy to understand and edit. No messing about trying to compile the whole thing from C source code.

This begs the question; could we write device drivers for the modules in Python? (They would be a little slower, but that would be OK for many things.) And store the device driver code inside the module I2C EEPROM?

————

Some security thoughts for nerds:
- STM32F7 doesn’t have a Memory Management Unit (MMU) (may have a Memory Protection Unit(MPU) which isn’t as good) so a Python virtual machine is a great way of separating applications
- it’s highly likely that there will be ways for malicious code to break out of the expected behaviour of the Python sandbox
- storing code on a device that you buy off the internet isn’t great
- the Python code on the modules could be signed using asymmetric cryptography (eg ECDSA) so that the code can be verified before execution
- EEZ could hold a master private key, and issue certificates to developers that let developers sign their own code
- maybe unsigned code could run if the user clicks an “OK, run it this time” button or configures their unit into some ‘developer’ mode

 
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Offline prasimix

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #208 on: December 25, 2019, 08:15:24 am »
This begs the question; could we write device drivers for the modules in Python? (They would be a little slower, but that would be OK for many things.) And store the device driver code inside the module I2C EEPROM?

This is an interesting question or proposal. Simplicity of Python is great feature, but overall performance is questionable. It could be fine for module that does not need a fast communication with the master MCU module (that is in charge of driving TFT touchscreen display). Peripheral module in that case needs on-board MCU by default, what is also not a big deal, but we have to add support for inter-module communication that is based on Python (what is not currently the case). Anyway, this is an idea worth of considering.

Some security thoughts for nerds:
- STM32F7 doesn’t have a Memory Management Unit (MMU) (may have a Memory Protection Unit(MPU) which isn’t as good) so a Python virtual machine is a great way of separating applications
- it’s highly likely that there will be ways for malicious code to break out of the expected behaviour of the Python sandbox
- storing code on a device that you buy off the internet isn’t great
- the Python code on the modules could be signed using asymmetric cryptography (eg ECDSA) so that the code can be verified before execution
- EEZ could hold a master private key, and issue certificates to developers that let developers sign their own code
- maybe unsigned code could run if the user clicks an “OK, run it this time” button or configures their unit into some ‘developer’ mode

Ok, "nerds" are welcomed with their comments here, and I have to discuss this with Martin, too.

Offline mcdanlj

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #209 on: December 25, 2019, 04:05:50 pm »
Some security thoughts for nerds:
- STM32F7 doesn’t have a Memory Management Unit (MMU) (may have a Memory Protection Unit(MPU) which isn’t as good) so a Python virtual machine is a great way of separating applications
- it’s highly likely that there will be ways for malicious code to break out of the expected behaviour of the Python sandbox
- storing code on a device that you buy off the internet isn’t great
- the Python code on the modules could be signed using asymmetric cryptography (eg ECDSA) so that the code can be verified before execution
- EEZ could hold a master private key, and issue certificates to developers that let developers sign their own code
- maybe unsigned code could run if the user clicks an “OK, run it this time” button or configures their unit into some ‘developer’ mode

Ok, "nerds" are welcomed with their comments here, and I have to discuss this with Martin, too.

Nerd here. Opinionated nerd with software security experience, including design and implementation of software provisioning secured by public key encryption.

I would really rather not have to jump through hoops to run my own code on my own BB3. The target user isn't naïve.

I'd like to point out that there are currently 129 backers, with less than two weeks remaining on the campaign. This does not make the BB3 a substantial attack target. There's a joke: When you are in a group being chased by a bear, you don't have to run faster than the bear, you just have to run faster than the slowest person in the group. Are people going to spend time attacking the BB3 when they could be trying to take over npm or pypi packages with tens or hundreds of millions or more of potential targets?

If you start signing other people's code, you are asserting something about it. Let's pretend you set this up and start signing code. What precisely does that signature represent? Does it mean you have audited the code for safety, and are confident that it won't break something? If someone is writing malicious code, are you more likely to catch it than someone with expertise in the domain in which the code applies? If you sign malicious code because you missed the malicious nature, and it causes harm, have you incurred liability by explicitly signing the malicious code?

Encryption is not magic pixie dust that makes code secure.

You have to start with what the actual threat is, and then design a system to protect against that threat. I don't see a threat that this proposal actually protects against. I understand the theoretical danger of running "untrusted code" on a power supply, but sprinkling encryption over that code is not an effective protection mechanism.

I did warn that I'm an opinionated nerd here. ☺
 
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Online robson2017

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #210 on: December 25, 2019, 05:54:18 pm »
Hello Everyone,
I want to share with you my progress with BB3 project (see photos below)
I've been very keen to do this project from the start and I've been waiting for it to be finished impatiently.
So far I have built 3 modules (MCU, AUX-PS & BP3C )
The next step is to build the DCP405 module, and I am waiting for the DCM220 to be finished.
“Prasimix” has done a great job with this project and has been very helpful, keep it up!
Robert
[][/]
 
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Offline prasimix

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #211 on: December 26, 2019, 07:22:18 am »
Great job!  :-+

Offline prasimix

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BB3 is OSHWA certified hardware
« Reply #212 on: December 26, 2019, 07:28:58 am »
EEZ BB3 is now OSHWA-certified as open hardware. Its UID is HR000002.





 
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Online IanJ

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #213 on: December 27, 2019, 12:18:17 pm »
Hi all,

Just backed this and really hoping it goes ahead.

I am interested in building/selling a module which replicates one of my PDVS2 products, I.e. 0-10vdc, 10uV step change, 20bit DAC, LM399AH ref. Etc.
I think it would be fun albeit loaded with challenges.

Ian.
Ian Johnston
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Manufacturer of the PDVS2 & PDVS2mini
 
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Offline prasimix

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #214 on: December 27, 2019, 12:22:35 pm »
Hi Ian, that sounds fantastic! :-+
You can count on all our support of adding new module (e.g. firmware wise, etc.). Just for the record: it does not need to be open source as rest of the BB3.
 
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Offline jbb

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #215 on: December 28, 2019, 06:41:51 pm »
Nerd here. Opinionated nerd with software security experience...

I'd like to point out that there are currently 129 backers, with less than two weeks remaining on the campaign. This does not make the BB3 a substantial attack target...

That's a very relevant point, thank you. "Threat modelling says don't bother, the crackers will come for your neighbour's IOT stuff first."
 
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Offline AlanS

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #216 on: December 30, 2019, 11:49:02 pm »
100% Funded. We're on!
 
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Offline jbb

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #217 on: December 31, 2019, 02:47:08 am »
Congratulations prasimix!
 
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Offline danielbriggs

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #218 on: December 31, 2019, 09:34:58 am »
Yes! It’s happening! :-DMM
Great start to 2020

All the best for the rest of the journey to get them ready and shipped out.
 
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Online IanJ

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #219 on: December 31, 2019, 10:38:49 am »
Oh, so looking forward to this.......
Ian Johnston
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Manufacturer of the PDVS2 & PDVS2mini
 
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Offline Sabrosa

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #220 on: December 31, 2019, 05:13:12 pm »
Congratulations prasimix! The funding pace seems to have picked up a bit towards the end, so maybe there's a chance of hitting the $100k stretch goal. :)
 
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Offline danielbriggs

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #221 on: December 31, 2019, 05:53:23 pm »
Congratulations prasimix! The funding pace seems to have picked up a bit towards the end, so maybe there's a chance of hitting the $100k stretch goal. :)

I guess it changes mindset post 100% from "do I want to maybe back this?" (possible 60-70% stall) vs. "I want to order this with a slightly shipping delay"  :)

I really hope this sticks around for many years and continues to evolve at close to it's current pace w.r.t. talk of extra modules / 8x way chassis? etc.
 
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Offline prasimix

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MicroPython Curve tracer script
« Reply #222 on: January 02, 2020, 01:41:22 pm »
The first video of BB3 as an automated NPN curve tracer:

https://twitter.com/envox/status/1212716344724066305
 
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Offline Rerouter

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Re: EEZ Bench Box 3 (BB3)
« Reply #223 on: January 02, 2020, 02:13:34 pm »
Would it be possible to run a similar demo in the 50mA range for the results, would then really show off its resolution,
 

Offline jbb

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Re: MicroPython Curve tracer script
« Reply #224 on: January 02, 2020, 07:47:03 pm »
... BB3 as an automated NPN curve tracer ...

Nice! Should be applicable to other devices too (MOSFETs etc.). Seeing a video demo also shows the value of the nice big touch screen :).

At risk of being a little picky - I know you’re busy! - it would be really cool if the last couple of seconds of the video were a screen grab (or close up photo of whatever) of the curves to show what you got.

And now on another subject; it looks like you might make your stretch goal.  If you do move the Ethernet and USB ports, would that free up a little room on the front of the master control board? If so, I think moving the boot mode switch from the aux power board to the master control board would be nice; those traces went quite close to the main power switch and were making me nervous.
 


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