EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: Simon on December 24, 2015, 01:03:36 pm
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http://www.energizer.com/ecoadvanced (http://www.energizer.com/ecoadvanced)
I was in a local shop and spotted the headline on te energizer battery rack, but quickly noticed the clarification that for AA batteries it's just 4% recycled material. According to their website that is 4% in weight an 10% in volume.
But their website is rather vague and I'm on the verge of beleiving they have just used certified recycled metal for the battery caees which is stupid because much raw metal is recycled so they would be claiming nothing new.
They seem to be saying that it is recycled active ingredient. To be honet with the vague claims they are shouting like they have solved the universes problems I'm wondering if it's snake oil.
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It will be silly to think that they are recycling the metal part ... most battery i use with my external flash light are usable for almost 3 to 6 month to power my wireless mouse make me think that yes it's can't be hard to figure out how to recollect in someway that active material, of battery thrown away and still have some charge.
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As used batteries are now being separated early from the waste stream into a battery recycling container, the volume probably makes it worthwhile to separate them into classes, shred them, and then separate the parts for reuse in manufacturing. Higher concentration than bare ore, so well worth it if they are separate.
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Until proven otherwise, remain dubious :P I saw those, and 4% recycled, and thought "lol recycled casing" too.
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Well yes battery material is just chemicals thst react to make poer and the reaction can be reversed in many cases. I'm just staggered at the low amount although they claim to want to increase to 40%
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The collected batteries are a usefull material for recycling, especially as most of them are alkaline now and even the few old "dry" cells are not that different in chemestry. Calculationg from the new battery is a little tricky - it's probaly easier to see how much of the old cells can be recyled. I would have expected much more than 4 % recycled, at least in europe.
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It sounds like they have done it for the publicity or there is not the infrastructure in place to sort and deal with old batteries. I wonder what they have been doing with the old ones so far.
At the end of the day I don't know why rechargeables are not more widely used.
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Most old batteries are going to landfill, or are being pulled out of the waste stream as scrap steel using a magnet. The only way this is viable is if there is a recycling scheme for getting them out as a separate stream, which is slowly starting to appear as I see the ewaste bins now here have separate compartments for CFL lamps, batteries, electronics and computers, where the sorting is somewhat done to get a container out to recycle that is pure. The 4% figure is about right for the number of the cells recycled.
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in the UK all large shops that sell batteries (all supermarkets) have to provide dedicated collection boxes for batteries. or at the local tip (yes i still call it the tip not the recycling centre because I don't think they recycle enough) there is a huge crate you can put them in so they are available. What we need is more use of rechargeables although they are much more used than years ago. I have had rechargeables around since i was a kid.
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The problem with rechargeable is they have a high internal discharge current which makes them inconvenient for low current drain applications such as smoke alarms and TV remote controls.
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If you buy eneloop you will be recycling the cell 100% each time you go through a full charge discharge cycle.
Eneloop Lite are best suited for low drain devices. They are less likely to leak.
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If you buy eneloop you will be recycling the cell 100% each time you go through a full charge discharge cycle.
Charging is not recycling.
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The problem with rechargeable is they have a high internal discharge current which makes them inconvenient for low current drain applications such as smoke alarms and TV remote controls.
Eneloops self discharge by 15% in a first year and even less afterwards.
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If you buy eneloop you will be recycling the cell 100% each time you go through a full charge discharge cycle.
Charging is not recycling.
No it's even better! The only application for non rechargeables is where they will last months or years like smoke alarms and clocks. But most batteries should be rechrgeable. But most people are lazy and not concerned about how their style of life affects them or others.
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If you buy eneloop you will be recycling the cell 100% each time you go through a full charge discharge cycle.
Charging is not recycling.
No it's even better! The only application for non rechargeables is where they will last months or years like smoke alarms and clocks. But most batteries should be rechrgeable. But most people are lazy and not concerned about how their style of life affects them or others.
I don't fully agree with this. With the rise of custom battery packs, I can imagine people who need batteries only in their tv remotes and smoke detectors. If that is the case, I think it is bother cheaper, Eco-freindlier, and less of a hassle to buy non-rechargeable, since they are so much cheaper, don't need a (also somewhat expensive) charger and just don't require the effort.
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If you buy eneloop you will be recycling the cell 100% each time you go through a full charge discharge cycle.
Charging is not recycling.
No it's even better! The only application for non rechargeables is where they will last months or years like smoke alarms and clocks. But most batteries should be rechrgeable. But most people are lazy and not concerned about how their style of life affects them or others.
I don't fully agree with this. With the rise of custom battery packs, I can imagine people who need batteries only in their tv remotes and smoke detectors. If that is the case, I think it is bother cheaper, Eco-freindlier, and less of a hassle to buy non-rechargeable, since they are so much cheaper, don't need a (also somewhat expensive) charger and just don't require the effort.
But you said the same thing I did.
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But you said the same thing I did.
I should have been more specific. I meant with the "lazy people" statement. Most people I know will use rechargeable batteries as often as possible (given it's reasonable).
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Well i dont know what attitudes are in different countries are. but in the UK we only do something to avoid a fine etc. People seem to think it's cool to have an easy wasteful life.
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Funny thing is I have a clock running of a rechargeable cell, because I got really tired of replacing the AA cell in it every 25 days ( bloody smooth movement clock, which ticks at 8Hz so sucks batteries down fast and loses time when the cell voltage drops below 1V1.
It now has a 12V supply, using a 7Ah SLA battery, and is supplied a regulated 1V2 using a red LED, a resistor and a recycled 1500uF 6V3 Capxon capacitor that was not bulging on the scrapped PC motherboard. The 12V supply is dual purpose, it also is a backup 8V supply for the cordless phone, made from 2 old burglar alarm power supply boards, both using 723 regulators. Cost was zero, all recycled stuff including the box and the wall plugs holding it to the wall.
As to batteries, it should be easy to make remote controls using a pouch cell, charged by placing in a holder on top of the set or just behind once every 2 months. I mean, those disposable ecigs are using the same cells, charge controllers and such that are in the refillable and rechargeable ones, they just omit the charger socket and cable. Got to be cheaper than a pair of AAA cells to the manufacturer in bulk, and would make for a good "green" selling point- no batteries ever. They would easily last the life of the set, or at least 5 years.
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in the UK all large shops that sell batteries (all supermarkets) have to provide dedicated collection boxes for batteries. or at the local tip (yes i still call it the tip not the recycling centre because I don't think they recycle enough) there is a huge crate you can put them in so they are available. What we need is more use of rechargeables although they are much more used than years ago. I have had rechargeables around since i was a kid.
For the whole EU: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32006L0066 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32006L0066)
The required collection rate for this year is 45% in Germany. For new car batteries we have to pay a deposit of €7.50 if we don't return an old battery.
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But most batteries should be rechrgeable.
I would like to agree with that but the way so many devices are going the way of proprietary and often non-user-replaceable rechargeable batteries, we are trading disposable batteries for disposable (but rechargeable) devices, which is not necessarily that much of an improvement.
I'm hoping that Stanford's Al-ion battery will be successful: I want to see how an inexpensive battery chemistry with very high charge/discharge current capability and very high endurance will change how rechargeable batteries get used. Part of me wishes to see them in AA/AAA form factor but at 2V open-circuit cell voltage, that would be risky for non-regulated loads.
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But most batteries should be rechrgeable.
I would like to agree with that but the way so many devices are going the way of proprietary and often non-user-replaceable rechargeable batteries, we are trading disposable batteries for disposable (but rechargeable) devices, which is not necessarily that much of an improvement.
I'm hoping that Stanford's Al-ion battery will be successful: I want to see how an inexpensive battery chemistry with very high charge/discharge current capability and very high endurance will change how rechargeable batteries get used. Part of me wishes to see them in AA/AAA form factor but at 2V open-circuit cell voltage, that would be risky for non-regulated loads.
Yes I am getting pretty pised of at the amount of non replaceable battery devices are out there, I don't know if my tablet can have it's battery replaced. I am afraid that once again it will be up to government who understand nothing about technology to use a sledge hammer to crack a nut and force manufacturers into being more resposable.
As I have said before you will probably buiy a huge flat screen TV with all of it's green certs, but when you use it to listen to the radio it still runs the whole screen............... The reality is that 90% of people don't care and virtually no manufacturer cares unless they can make a green claim to help them sell more stuff. they will care when their homes are destroyed by global warming and climate change, every year is a record year for temperatures and bad weather, and we still don't see it. Marketing claims will not fix our problems, our way of life has to change.
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As I have said before you will probably buiy a huge flat screen TV with all of it's green certs, but when you use it to listen to the radio it still runs the whole screen....
First-world problems: choosing convenience over efficiency. There isn't much that manufacturers can do about it.
Programming is moving to ever higher level languages with more hardware and algorithm abstractions that reduce the need for low-level knowledge at the expense of increased computational overhead, although development of more efficient native recompiling is increasing to mitigate that. Hardware development is on a similar path with more stuff getting delegated to microcontrollers and DSPs as the costs go down while processing power increases and power efficiency improves: devices used to require an entire chipset to process 6-8MHz QAM signals, now we process 200MHz wide mixed QAM/OFDM signals (DOCSIS 3.1) in a single DSP chip. A fixed-function ASIC would be more power-efficient but DSPs are cheaper, far more convenient and low-power-enough for AC-powered equipment.
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Yes processors have become very efficient over the years and very capable. I kept the same PC for 7 years and still soold it on and it was still a decent machine. My new machine does even more work per watt, I now have a tablet with a dual core 1.5GHz processor that will last 4 hours on a battery, things have certainly improved. But then, we go and throw it away. People buy over sized screens, I was discussing screen sizes with my brother in law and he said games were made for 32+ inch screens and he didn't like his small screen, so I had to point out that you just sit closer to the smaller screen, the larger one often has the same amount of dots in it. Most people are frankly stupid and just don't think, they worry more about showing off than about what they actually need.
Why TV's turn on a whole screen to have the radio on is a mystery to me. With modern LED back lighting it should be trivial to only turn on a few rows if text is needed, but no, we run 50" screens in order to listen to 5W of audio power..... The truth is the general public do not give a shit and neither do manufacturers, it is only regulations and general advances that make us better. My electricity bill has dropped since I switched to all LED lighting and turned off 2 in 4 cores in my PC (that runs boinc at 100% all the time). I only need one core really but 2 don't hurt but 4 is pointless. Hyperthreading technology from the kings of processor technology scammers intel is a total waste of time and reduces the bang per watt of a processor, but it looks good in the adds to claim an 8 core processor of which only 4 really exist and only 2 are needed for most people.
I don't know what impact different programming languages have on how many instructions and power get used. but there are plenty that should not be used and plenty that probably work fine. .NET programs used to be attrociasly slow and quite frankly flash should be banned from the planet.
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I also bought one of those really cheap smooth running wall clocks and regret it. A AA alkaline cell lasts about 3 months only. I eventually got so pissed off i took it down and measured the current consumption. It was1mA. Yet again burned by cheap oriental crap. I should have known better. In future i'll only get the tick tick type.
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does the place it was made make that much of a difference ? if it's a smoth moover surely it will have a more complex operation and require more power, instead of one click you have lots