Author Topic: ESR meter  (Read 11007 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kripton2035

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2712
  • Country: fr
    • kripton2035 schematics repository
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2018, 05:33:32 pm »
yes it is 4-wires measurements



and for the TL-22:


« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 05:35:55 pm by kripton2035 »
 
The following users thanked this post: Svgeesus

Offline nanofrog

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5446
  • Country: us
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2018, 05:37:22 pm »
That meter says that it does 4-wire measurement, yet the photo shows only three connectors, one of which is for a shield. Are the other two special two-wire connectors with force and sense on the same plug?
The portion of the test fixtures that plug into the DE-5000 use a double sided PCB. So you've test on one side, sense on the other (true 4 wire). The round hole is for a guard/ground line (if you choose/need to use it).

The one drawback to the other end of the fixtures, is the alligator clips or tweezers terminate the sense and test signals before reaching the CUT. Given the distances are small (~1 - 1.5"), it's not going to make that much of a difference in practice generally speaking.

But if you truly want 4 wire all the way down to the component leads, then you can disassemble an alligator clip fixture (TL-21) and add your own wire and clips (i.e. those that the halves are insulated from one another, such as a Mueller BU-78K or similar). And ~$22, it's not horribly expensive either.

Ideally, I'd recommend just adding 4* BNC connectors instead of wires just coming out of it, or even using banana's (better than raw wire though as strain relief through the plastic fixture enclosure isn't an issue). That way you can just connect up true Kelvin clips or a pair of tweezers that stay isolated all the way down to the CUT.  :-+

It'd be a bit more difficult with the tweezers (TL-22), but quite doable (PCB material would be one way). that would accomplish this, and inexpensively as well. The Kelvin clips can easily out-cost the fixture (there seems to be some decent ones available on eBay and Aliexpress that are much less expensive than the Mueller's linked above).

Edit: Krypton2035 beat me to it.  8)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 05:39:53 pm by nanofrog »
 
The following users thanked this post: Svgeesus

Offline tigrTopic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • !
  • Posts: 196
  • Country: ua
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2018, 06:29:21 pm »
tigr, your posts would be much more useful if you would add more text describing what the pictures you post are illustrating.
This is for another topic. Here we are talking about a simple ESR meter at 100kHz.
 Yesterday, one device was repaired and decided to test two capacitors in parallel. It turned out not to be a simple task. However, I came to the conclusion that both capacitors are normal.
2x2200uF/50v ESR-0,004Ohm.
This, it seems to me, is one of the variants of the solution for checking the capacitors connected in parallel.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 07:24:57 pm by tigr »
 

Offline The Electrician

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 747
  • Country: us
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2018, 08:15:47 pm »
tigr, your posts would be much more useful if you would add more text describing what the pictures you post are illustrating.
This is for another topic. Here we are talking about a simple ESR meter at 100kHz.
 Yesterday, one device was repaired and decided to test two capacitors in parallel. It turned out not to be a simple task. However, I came to the conclusion that both capacitors are normal.
2x2200uF/50v ESR-0,004Ohm.
This, it seems to me, is one of the variants of the solution for checking the capacitors connected in parallel.

You have added more text and this is a good thing.  But what you have said arouses our curiosity, so try to go further.

Tell us WHY it was not a simple task.  Then tell us how you solved the problem.  Tell us what the other variants for checking capacitors in parallel are, and why they didn't work.
 

Offline tigrTopic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • !
  • Posts: 196
  • Country: ua
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2018, 12:15:43 am »
Tell us what the other variants for checking capacitors in parallel are, and why they didn't work.
This I would like to hear from many of you who have tons of different equipment of the first and highest category.
 

Offline BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7549
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2018, 01:33:51 am »
 :-DD .. lol .. here we go again ...

Offline Svgeesus

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • Country: us
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2018, 05:21:25 pm »
Thanks kripton2035 and nanofrog.

I have since found the teardown https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/der-ee-de-5000-unboxing-and-teardown/ which is interesting reading.

I was asking because my new (to me) bench multimeter (Keysight 34465A) can measure capacitance and (4-wire) resistance, but as far as I can see cannot measure ESR (or, indeed, inductance). If I get a separate LCR meter I would be looking for 4-wire measurement.
 

Offline kripton2035

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2712
  • Country: fr
    • kripton2035 schematics repository
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2018, 07:22:40 pm »
the deree de5000 is (still) the best bang for buck if you're searching for an lcr meter today.
if you want a really better instrument, you need k$.
 
The following users thanked this post: nanofrog

Offline nanofrog

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5446
  • Country: us
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2018, 12:35:00 am »
the deree de5000 is (still) the best bang for buck if you're searching for an lcr meter today.
if you want a really better instrument, you need k$.
+1  :-+

It's a fine LCR for hobbyist use IME, and it won't bankrupt you to buy. And as it's portable, you can position it where ever makes the most sense for the project being worked on. ;) Might not seem like a big deal, but I've learned that it's a nice feature vs. boat anchor LCR's.
 

Offline tigrTopic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • !
  • Posts: 196
  • Country: ua
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2018, 08:01:29 pm »
Well, if there are no other ways, let it be the only one so far. ;)
Returning to the LCR meter.Very even good. :)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 08:49:50 pm by tigr »
 

Offline tigrTopic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • !
  • Posts: 196
  • Country: ua
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2018, 04:49:31 pm »
I chose here such a precision microammeter for the circuit. ;)
 

Offline Lassivv

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: fi
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2019, 12:24:59 pm »
Just thinking what is best budget choice to measure ONLY esr. Not need that transistor, resistor, etc testers. Of course if you guys are that thinkings that price 8-15 transitors/resistor/capacitor/esr testers are accurate enough well i happy take links to good one :)

I thinking that just ESR meters are very much accurate and better reliable result, than that 8dollars cheap "multi" testers. Maybe i be just wrong.
In terms of reading ESR, a dedicated ESR meter is a better choice than a DMM. The main reason is a DMM can mislead you (i.e. make you think it's good when it isn't). They can usually test a wider range of values than a DMM as well. They're good for other things as well, such as measuring track resistance in order to find a fault.

Can be kit or ready. Price point is about 30-100dollars. And if possible europe shops are better because customs, taxes, postages etc :)

I know only Black one what Eevblog Dave use if i remember right something:  Dick Smith Electronics  but i think that not get anymore and price going with customs, taxes and postages quite high.
In the case of Dave's unit, his is a Silicon Chip model (latest).

Given that you're into repair projects, you might want to consider an LCR meter instead. And in the case of ESR, they usually offer multiple excitation frequencies. For example, if you need to test an electrolytic in a linear PSU, you can set the frequency to 100Hz (2 * mains frequency) in order to get accurate results for it's operating conditions. And they also test inductors and capacitors as well.  ;)

FWIW, the DER EE DE-5000 would fit your budget. And if you want it faster than the default method, the increase isn't that much IME. Kits with some test fixtures won't stretch your budget by much at all; say ~$20 over just the meter (example; includes the ground/guard wire, alligator clip fixture, and tweezer fixture).

These can also do 4-wire measurements. Lots of info here in EEVBlog, including teardown photos. Other stuff on YouTube as well. Excitation frequencies are 100Hz, 120Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz, and 100kHz.

If you'll note, the sellers linked are all in Japan and offer free shipping. What I've no clue to, is the customs, duties,... that your government would levy. Perhaps ask the seller to mark it as a gift to minimize/eliminate these fees?  :-//

For disclosure, I do own one of these as do a number of other members (info on great deals is very popular for some reason...  :P). Very nice bit of kit for the money IMHO.

In regard to Tigr's request of a unit sans transformer, the DER EE DE-5000 is such an animal, so you might want to add it to your short list for comparison.

This is only one what i finded: http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/evb1.htm

This looks quite good and get kit version too. Seems better than china clones on ebay, but anyone know is that ones ok?
It's the same as as the Silicon Chip ESR Mk.2 by Bob Parker linked above. The page you linked even states this is the case, and has a link to Bob's page.  :)

That DER EE DE-5000 seems good to my use. Little expensive what i thinking, but thats very good meter i think what i read.

Think to buy this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DER-EE-DE-5000-High-Accuracy-Handheld-LCR-Meter-w-TL-21-TL-22-TL-23-/282040803373?oid=161104294237

What you think is that good way to update that test alligator clips, that default alligators looks quite poor quality and so short wires. Checked this kind video and think if do that update with this Aliexpress alligator clips.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-Set-4-BNC-TO-Alligator-clip-Kelvin-Clip-for-LCR-Meter-with-4-BNC-Test/32912179203.html?spm=2114

If not better LCR meters this price range not appear, i think i buy this DE-5000. Many thanks your hints/tips @nanofrog
 

Offline kripton2035

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2712
  • Country: fr
    • kripton2035 schematics repository
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2019, 01:09:02 pm »
the TL-22 tweezers probes are very nice. I always use them. don't buy your deree-5000 without them.
 

Offline Lassivv

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: fi
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2019, 02:52:22 pm »
Thanks for tip kripton2035. I think then i buy that kit what i linked, that i think includes everything what i need.

Btw. Can i measure ESR caps when they are soldered on circuit. Like bob parker model i think you can measure esr caps when they are installed on circuit board and not need to desolder them to measure ESR.
 

Offline kripton2035

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2712
  • Country: fr
    • kripton2035 schematics repository
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2019, 03:27:42 pm »
Quote
Can i measure ESR caps when they are soldered on circuit. Like bob parker model i think you can measure esr caps when they are installed on circuit board and not need to desolder them to measure ESR.
yes this works fine. but it sometimes leads to wrong results (as it would with a dedicated in circuit esr meter because of parallels devices)
also on power supplies with big capacitor bank, you have to switch the frequency to 100 or 120Hz or the total capacity is too high for the meter.
 

Offline Lassivv

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: fi
Re: ESR meter
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2019, 01:46:30 pm »
Thanks for info kripton2035. Yesterday evening i ordered that DE-5000 meter, with that accessories on last link.

Not just waiting to get that here and start testing new meter  :-DMM

ëdit: Is that right Dave is only do teardown this meter, not tested meter more any other video?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf