EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: mubes on January 22, 2019, 10:38:44 pm
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Folks,
Based on recommendations and feedback here about PCBway I thought I'd give them a try with a simple prototype 2-layer board which wasn't critical. I didn't request anything beyond the defaults but I have to admit to not being too impressed at this track repair being on the first PCB I pulled out of the pack..specially since it's on the USB data line.
I have contacted them but they said this is allowed unless I state special requirements and "the price we quote include reparing line". Disappointed, as other peoples experience with them seems to be better....I haven't looked at the other PCBs in the pack as I wanted to keep them clean for assembly and I'm travelling at the moment. Perhaps I've just been very unfortunate. The experience of others will lead me to give them one more try, but it's certainly a first strike as far as I'm concerned.
DAVE
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How many boards you ordered? Didn't they supply an extra board?
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Wow, if they didn’t give you an extra board that is pretty bad. Try JLCpcb as well, they seem to be very good imo.
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I ordered 10, but haven't actually counted how many they have supplied...I will do that when I'm home tomorrow evening. It would make sense for the duffer board to be on top of the pack and If the problem is just on a bonus board then its not fair to be beating on them. I'll obviously update this post accordingly when I'm able to take a look. That would actually be a nice outcome, as I seem to be the only one who has had issues with them...
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I've used PCBway a *lot*. I'd say I've easily done 20 designs with them, including a handful of PCBA of ~100 units and a larger order in process now. Everything I have done has been two-layer, mostly leaded hasl but also lead free, enig, and a couple with 2 oz copper. I use the 6/6 rules option, but I work really hard to only get close to that minimum rule if I really, really need to.
I don't have stats, but I feel like there are usually a couple extra boards in my orders. Of all the board I had made there I can think of maybe one that was straight-up broken when I got it, with a broken trace.
My assessment of their quality is that it has been "fine." I've noticed slight variation between orders, but nothing that was unacceptable. I wish the silk was higher resolution, but other than that, no issues.
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For the price i would not fuzz about it. I occasionally receive boards with one with repaired shorted tracks. Give them a credit for actually testing the boards and fixing the problems. Would be much worse if they did not test.
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Not pretty. Was the repair mentioned in any way or did you just notice it yourself and then asked PCBWay? I wasn't even aware they would do such repairs as part of their normal production process... that's good to know.
I ordered two different PCB designs so far from PCBWay (one 2-layer, 2-oz, 1.6mm; the other was 4-layer, 0.8mm, a couple weeks ago). Both turned out pretty good, but I did notice on the second order (the 0.8mm PCB) that some of the boards were very slightly warped... This batch was meant for hand assembly, so it was not a problem, but the warped boards would probably have been rejected for automated assembly. Maybe the warping was due to the milling, so this would probably not have happened if I had panelized them (I ordered them as individual boards). So it's probably partly my fault, but I had the same boards made at PCBCART also not panelized and they turned out much better. PCBCART is significantly more expensive (but still in the "low-cost" zone) but the overall quality seems much higher.
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Most Chinese fabs do this. What annoys me the most is that they tended do repair instead of just marking bad boards within panel. Even if bad boards are allowed.
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So, just to close this one off. They did indeed supply a spare board and its is the re-worked one that is on top so I guess its no big deal. However, in all the boards I've ever had I've not seen this before so it was a bit of a surprise and it's not something I'm overly comfortable with.
Regards
DAVE
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I think I'd rather see the repair. That shows me that they did at least some kind of testing and found the fault, instead of just shipping out a bunch of boards, none of which would have worked and left you to figure out where the problem was. Especially if this was the 'extra' board and the rest are all good.
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My boss loves them. I f'n hate them. I will use them if I can wait (turn key assembly) and budget is very important, otherwise I avoid them. Their boards are not good for rework. I have had traces just come of with just a light touch of the soldering iron. If it is 2 layer, i just use Oshpark and expedite. I have had a board come back in three days.
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I’ve never had a problem with them and I’ve never found a “bodge” on a board. Getting an extra board or two is common.
At least you know they are testing and inspecting.
What’s the width / spacing on those tracks?
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I've had no problems with PCBWay on 2, 4-layer and MCORE PCB's. Shipping DHL is a burn though. Quality was good.
OSHPARK I was not completely happy with. I've had hassles with finished hole sizes (too small), solder mask attacked by IPA, and the dark purple is murder to see traces, the boards don't tolerate much rework. Those kind of things. But low cost.
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The DHL shipping is very fast, (and the entire fab plus shipment time is very fast overall) but it's expensive.
But you don't get a choice about expensive DHL.
You might get USD$5 worth of boards (10x 10cm*10cm PbHASL green mask, standard cheap design rules) and pay USD$20 for shipping!
Maybe they could offer a choice of slow, crap, cheap shipping?
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What’s the width / spacing on those tracks?
8 mil, nothing extreme at all. I have to say, I don't think the quality is any better then Elecrow, which has been my go-to place for 2 layer non-critical boards, and I don't think the silk screen is any better. Overall these cost me just shy of $100 including stencil and shipping and I think Elecrow would have been around $60 or so. Next time out I'll try JLPCB which looks like it would have been about $50 or so. For these kinds of boards I'm perfectly happy with Elecrow but figured I'd look around for a second supplier while I could.
DAVE
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The DHL shipping is very fast, (and the entire fab plus shipment time is very fast overall) but it's expensive.
But you don't get a choice about expensive DHL.
You might get USD$5 worth of boards (10x 10cm*10cm PbHASL green mask, standard cheap design rules) and pay USD$20 for shipping!
Maybe they could offer a choice of slow, crap, cheap shipping?
They do...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/experience-with-pcbway/?action=dlattach;attach=634825;image)
Cheapest is China Post or E-packet at US$11
There is a second drop down list on the final payment page.
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Whenever I order from them I choose DHL. ~5 days from order to delivery. Sometimes 4. It only goes over if I order when delivery would be sunday.
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DHL is extra ripoff, no way it's even $25:
Shipping Fee
Customs/Duties/Brokerage Fees
Taxes
Handling Fee $18 for me
I've used china post for PCBWay small shipments and it worked out much cheaper but slower to ship.
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Has anybody ever used their PCBA and what was your experience like for assembly?
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Personally, I prefer JLCPCB
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I've used PCBway for 5 orders, and I'm sure I'll do again.
I never experienced a quality problem, and their service is amazing.
My Gerber files had some errors (my fault), but they discovered the errors and with the exchange of some e-mail it was solved (between friday evening and monday morning, somebody was there working even on sunday) and there was no delay in delivery.
DHL is very expensive, and the most expensive part are custom duties (calculated By DHL on imaginary costs) and DHL broker's service. On my last orders they asked about 31 Euros total (plus the 31 US$ I paid to PCBway for delivery).
Next order I'll use CHINA POST e-packet.
Best regards
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I've received PCBs from a lot more expensive PCB fabs that have been repaired. PCBway is great for quick prototypes but for more critical PCBs I stick to eurocircuits (from time to time I have to send angry email to them but 95% they are perfect)
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PCB houses often send extra boards that are duds or have been "repaired". It's not a crime.
When I've asked the "what for?", I'm told these boards can be useful for manufacturing to try out, prototyping sections of the circuit, mechanical to try in enclosures etc. so they send them instead of discarding them. You still get the correct count of flawless PCB's that you ordered.
This is even with high-end North American PCB fab houses. I don't think it says anything about the quality.
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PCBway is great for quick prototypes but for more critical PCBs I stick to eurocircuits (from time to time I have to send angry email to them but 95% they are perfect)
I've used Eurocircuits a lot and never had any problem. Good stuff.
Whereas Eurocircuits is in the "low-cost zone" for an european manufacturer, it's definitely much more expensive than PCBWay. Even for the basic options. Not even talking about if you need anything "special" like a 0.8mm PCB. Then it becomes awfully expensive. The standard actual turnaround time is also significantly shorter with PCBWay. 5 days from ordering to received (week-end included), with the standard, non-express option. The same is around 8 days with Eurocircuits, sometimes a bit more.
So yeah, for quick prototypes, PCBWay is hard to beat. For production, it may be another story depending on your quality requirements.