Figuring out an RS485 protocol?

[alanambrose]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out (i.e. reverse engineer) an RS485 protocol - and I wonder whether (a) someone recognises this, or (b) someone has some hints on how to go about decoding it.

It's taken from chatter between a heating controller and a thermostat.

Messages occur roughly once a second. There's a 2s sample below, apparently with two messages (each maybe a poll & response), taken with an RS485 sniffer at 9600 baud (I measured the waveform frequency at 10kHz with a scope). The listing is time in ms followed by bytes in hex, so the 1st part is just 2 bytes 0x95ee. My preliminary investigation suggests this isn't Modbus RTU as the 2nd byte in the message, which should be the function code, isn't between 0x01 and 0x10.

(I'm looking at this re Modbus format: https://ipc2u.com/articles/knowledge-base/modbus-rtu-made-simple-with-detailed-descriptions-and-examples/ )

Any ideas?

TIA, Alan

Code: [Select]

15:16:50.545 95ee
15:16:50.551 bb
15:16:50.556 952a
15:16:50.561 f80b7809f5
15:16:50.778 95ee
15:16:50.784 ce400979a442000b7c38f9
15:16:50.847 2a
15:16:50.852 f3b8
15:16:51.573 95ea
15:16:51.578 ce056ac80b7809ac
15:16:51.759 95eace
15:16:51.764 400979a442
15:16:51.769 820b7b08e9


[alanambrose]

...and looking at the protocol as it runs, it looks like a request-response with a 10 or 11-byte request and a 13 or 16-byte response...

e.g.

Code: [Select]

Delta T in ms Time Hex # Bytes Packet Bytes
15:16:27.444 95 1
 5 15:16:27.449 f2fe 2
 26 15:16:27.475 95 1
 6 15:16:27.481 72080b7829cc 6 10

 181 15:16:27.662 95f2 2
 6 15:16:27.668 ce400979a442820b7c08fd 11 13


[ajb]

It's a little tough to tell where packets start and end from the capture, because the vagaries of the OS, drivers, and software will obscure the timing somewhat.  This is where looking at it on a scope or a logic analyzer would be helpful so you can see the timing more clearly.

If you break the capture up by time:

Code: [Select]

15:16:50.545 95ee
15:16:50.551     bb
15:16:50.556       952a
15:16:50.561           f80b7809f5

15:16:50.778 95ee
15:16:50.784     ce400979a442000b7c38f9

15:16:50.847 2a
15:16:50.852   f3b8

15:16:51.573 95ea
15:16:51.578     ce056ac80b7809ac

15:16:51.759 95eace
15:16:51.764       400979a442
15:16:51.769                 820b7b08e9
A couple of repeated patterns jump out.  You'd really want to capture a lot more traffic to start sussing things out. With such a small sample you can't really distinguish between patterns and coincidences.  Then you'll want to start capturing traffic while something in the system is changing, to see if you can find any parts of the traffic that seem to track those changes.  You could also try disconnecting the two devices, which should give you an idea of which device is sending which sorts of messages.

[nali]

I would probably start by disconnecting the thermostat as you should then hopefully only see the poll message. That'd give you a reference point as to the start of the message exchange.

BTW - Are you sure you've got your A/B lines correct? (don't assume the manufacturer's notation is correct!)

[MiDi]

If you could tell the manufacturers of the components or the system this could perhaps give a hint what protocols it could be.
What are the high and low voltages measured?

[engineer_in_shorts]

Once I saw an interesting you tube video of how someone reverse engineered a protocol.
 I think it was a WiFi sous vide.

[engineer_in_shorts]

Ignore all the Tcp/ip type stuff. At around 14minutes into the video there is a couple of ideas such as time correlation of the known temperature to the packet payload.

[Fortran]

See if this helps.
I've just made a python script that talks to these controllers.

English manual starts on page 27. (see attached pdf)

[alanambrose]

Hmm, thanks - all good suggestions.

>> Are you sure you've got your A/B lines correct? (don't assume the manufacturer's notation is correct!)

I think so, but you're right, it would be worth reversing them to see whether it makes more sense.

>>> I would probably start by disconnecting the thermostat as you should then hopefully only see the poll message.

Duh, I actually didn't think of that.

>>>
If you could tell the manufacturers of the components or the system this could perhaps give a hint what protocols it could be.
What are the high and low voltages measured?
<<<

These are Uponor components - from the markings on the device (A, B, 5V and GND) and the scope trace (sorry I'm not at that location right now and didn't save a pic) compared with some RS485 examples I saw on the web, it definitely looks like RS485 polled once a second at 9600 baud. Of course, I can always be wrong.

>>> a couple of ideas such as time correlation of the known temperature to the packet payload.

Nice, I think I can see half-a-dozen or so message types, each starting with 0x95xx where xx might be some kind of function code. 0x95 might be the ID of this particular sensor. A nice idea would be run code to spot-the-difference between the last message of that type and the current one. From the thermostat's IU - it looks like there are 5 or 6 values (set temp, current temp etc etc) which might be read as RS485 'registers'. Then I can twiddle the values in the thermostat's UI and spot the changes in the messages.

Will try some of these ideas and report back.

Alan

[alanambrose]

>>> I've just made a python script that talks to these controllers.

Sorry Mr Fortan, I didn't quite process that, esp. since I didn't say which controller...and the protocol you describe doesn't look like the signals I'm getting.

Which controllers were you referring to? I'm looking at the T-146 and the I-143 peripherals and the X-145 controller.

Alan

[Fortran]

I'm referring to Drews PID regulators.
Not the same, but I figured there could be some similarities.

[alanambrose]

>>>
I'm referring to Drews PID regulators.
Not the same, but I figured there could be some similarities.
<<<

Ah, I see.

For anyone playing along at home, this is what I'm recording atm:

http://anagram.net/nuts/RS485/Uponor%2003-Nov-18%2011-18%20-%20rh%20channel.csv

This has my guess at part of the format in the headings.

I also found this doc:

https://www.uponor.com/-/media/country-specific/uponor_com/download-centre/smatrix/smatrix-pro/uponor-product-info-smatrix-move-pro-modbus-rtu-en-1088472-12-2016.pdf

- this describes the modbus interface on a related (but not the same) device. That is clearly different.

Curiously, the data I'm recording seems to have too much variation in it. I assume that if the only data that is changing from the thermostats is the air temperature then it shouldn't change very frequently. I'm getting changes on mostly every poll from (what I think is) the same device.

I'm going to put a logic analyser on it to ensure the data I'm recording in my code is really what's on the wire.

Alan

[nali]

Just a thought - I'm assuming you're sniffing using a baud rate of 9600 with no parity & 8 data bits. Have you tried using using parity and 7bit?

We interface with a variety of equipment at work. Whereas 90% of devices use the ubiquitous 9600,N,8,1 we do sometimes see 7-bit interfaces, especially when using an ASCII-based protocol.

[alanambrose]

>>> Just a thought - I'm assuming you're sniffing using a baud rate of 9600 with no parity & 8 data bits. Have you tried using using parity and 7bit?

Ah good point.

I'm a bit slow in keeping the thread updated but a fair amount of progress has been made and I'm now successfully faking up some sensor replies.

When I started out, being impatient, I waved the scope at it for 5 secs and it seemed to show A & B the right way round at 10KHz frequency so I thought '9,600 baud, probably TRU, off we go....' and fired up some serial code and started logging.

Well, while I could see some polls and responses at 1 sec intervals, the data that came back looked a bit rubbish. In particular it varied too much. Barring some wacky encryption scheme, I expected the sensors to send back mostly the same temperature data from second to second - which is, of course, what they do.

OK so I fired up the scope for a more careful look around:



So, there's the 1 sec poll and response I saw before (screen dump #1), then every 6 secs an extra little poll and response is done (screen dump #2). I disconnected all the sensors (as suggested) and saw only 7 byte polls - all are 7 bytes long and each starts with 0x1104 except for the extra little poll which starts with 0x1204 (screen dump #3). Also, by looking at enough packets I saw that they're probably 8 / N / 1, although nali's point is noted.

I measured the frequency a bit more accurately and came up with (screen dump #2) ... 19,690 Hz. Actually, if I use 19,200 baud I get dodgy data and if I use 19,690 everything is good.
The clincher came when I checked the last two bytes of each packet against a modbus CRC calc ... and good data...

OK so that left me the slowish job of twiddling the options on the sensors, observing the packets and seeing where the data was. It's a mess, all sorts of stuff tucked away on odd byte and bit boundaries and with odd lengths. Definitely not RTU. But decoded nevertheless.

Result.

Thanks everyone for your useful comments and suggestions.

Alan

[alanambrose]

Ah one other funny thing. I was having trouble decoding the temperature data so I started plotting it in Excel.  It didn't make much sense until...



WTF - Fahrenheit! Last thing I expected - I'm in the UK and Uponor are Norweigan ffs

A.

[thobie]

WTF - Fahrenheit! Last thing I expected - I'm in the UK and Uponor are Norweigan ffs

Uponor is Finnish company. And Celsius is from Sweden so hell no, US to blame! 

Maybe they have bought some US company or the software development has done is states.

[stratcat]

This is somewhat like what Raritan ( https://www.raritan.com/ ) uses in their "PX Intelligent Rack PDUs" (glorified power strips for server racks).
I pulled one of those (PX-1000) out of a trash bin thinking it was just a big 20 outlet power strip.
A few days later, I got around to checking it out. It powered up, no smoke, etc.
Then I noticed the ethernet port. They are web-accessible! Each unit has a webserver (and more) that allows monitoring and control of each outlet, banks of outlets, temperature, current, voltage, etc. Internally, they use an RS485-ish protocol. Once I got the Baud rate figured out, I started monitoring the 485 bus. There is a LOT of traffic that appeared to be gibberish at first. Then, I started noticing patterns while monitoring the bus with PuTTY while sending commands via the web server. After a few days (I'm retired), I got it all figured out and started sending commands via RS485 WITH SUCCESS.
Needless to say, when I went back to get more of these units, they were all gone.
Anyway, I have built up a good bit of documentation if anyone needs such.
Sorry to be so long-winded but figuring out odd things is me.
Then, there is the Raritan "AUATC terminal converter".

Code: [Select]

The AUATC is designed to emulate an “ASCII terminal,” converting RS232 serial ASCII terminal data to PS/2 keyboard and VGA video or Sun keyboard and Sun video. Saw one on eBay long before the PX-1000 incident for $15.00 and thought I had to have it.
A little box about 4" x 4" x 1". I use it often for troubleshooting Arduino projects and other RS-232 stuff.
I've modified it for switchable RS-232 serial or TTL serial.
It also has an RJ45 port that outputs video and RS485 for their KVM products.
Sorry for hijacking your post.

[jsouto]

Hi,

Did you make some improvements? i trying to find out how the T-146 os Uponor works because I want to manage the thermostat throught Internet.

Thanks

[jsouto]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out (i.e. reverse engineer) an RS485 protocol - and I wonder whether (a) someone recognises this, or (b) someone has some hints on how to go about decoding it.

It's taken from chatter between a heating controller and a thermostat.

Messages occur roughly once a second. There's a 2s sample below, apparently with two messages (each maybe a poll & response), taken with an RS485 sniffer at 9600 baud (I measured the waveform frequency at 10kHz with a scope). The listing is time in ms followed by bytes in hex, so the 1st part is just 2 bytes 0x95ee. My preliminary investigation suggests this isn't Modbus RTU as the 2nd byte in the message, which should be the function code, isn't between 0x01 and 0x10.

(I'm looking at this re Modbus format: https://ipc2u.com/articles/knowledge-base/modbus-rtu-made-simple-with-detailed-descriptions-and-examples/ )

Any ideas?

TIA, Alan

Code: [Select]

15:16:50.545 95ee
15:16:50.551 bb
15:16:50.556 952a
15:16:50.561 f80b7809f5
15:16:50.778 95ee
15:16:50.784 ce400979a442000b7c38f9
15:16:50.847 2a
15:16:50.852 f3b8
15:16:51.573 95ea
15:16:51.578 ce056ac80b7809ac
15:16:51.759 95eace
15:16:51.764 400979a442
15:16:51.769 820b7b08e9


I thinking in sniffing the data with a with and Arduino shield, https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1024.html.

Is it possible ?

Thanks.

Sorry for my english

[alanambrose]

>>>
I thinking in sniffing the data with a with and Arduino shield, https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1024.html.

Is it possible ?
<<<

Probably, but you might need to set the baud rate to an unusual number and it looks to me that the Arduino codebase that it only accept a few magic baud rates. Maybe someone else can chime in. I'm using C# and a rs485 dongle and setting the baud rate to 19,685. You might like to measure the actual baud rate with a scope if you have one. You could just try a serial app and a cheap rs485 dongle on a Mac/Windows/Linux machine to see if you can see the data OK that way. Try 19,685 and 19,200 baud and 8 / N / 1 and see if either of those work well. You will probably see data in either case, but one may look like sensible regular comms and the other slightly random nonsense.

Alan

[jsouto]

>>>
I'm using C# and a rs485 dongle and setting the baud rate to 19,685.

>>>>>>

Which dongle are you using ? and did you make an on porpose  application in C# to read the data in the dongle ?

What you mean with 8 / N / 1 ?

Thanks

[jsouto]

Probably, but you might need to set the baud rate to an unusual number and it looks to me that the Arduino codebase that it only accept a few magic baud rates. Maybe someone else can chime in. I'm using C# and a rs485 dongle and setting the baud rate to 19,685. You might like to measure the actual baud rate with a scope if you have one. You could just try a serial app and a cheap rs485 dongle on a Mac/Windows/Linux machine to see if you can see the data OK that way. Try 19,685 and 19,200 baud and 8 / N / 1 and see if either of those work well. You will probably see data in either case, but one may look like sensible regular comms and the other slightly random nonsense.

Alan

Hi,

I made some progress. As you said,  I put a rs485 dongle to sniff the traffic of the thermostat. I tried with 19685 baud, 8/N/1 and I get data but now the problem is figure out where the temperature is store. This is my pattern:

   10 05 54 f1 ff a1 0f
   
   10 05 54 f1 40 02 c6 3e 00 00 3f 0c 08 3b 01 9a 71 46
   
   10 05 54 f1 2d 7f ff 3d 00 00 0c 00 24 37 01 9a 38 03 b6 3b 01 9a 3c 00 48 35 80 00 ea a7

   11 05 68 d8 ff 43 53

   11 05 68 d8 40 02 c9 3e 00 00 3f 0c 03 42 00 22 08 09 da 09 68 26 0a 00 2e 45 1c

   11 05 68 d8 2d 7f ff 3d 00 04 0c 00 24 37 01 9a 38 03 b6 3b 02 c4 3c
   
   10 05 54 ff ff a5 6f
   10 05 54 ff 40 02 c2 3e 80 00 3f 0c 08 3b 03 b4 af 01   
    10 05 54 ff 2d 7f ff 3d 00 40 0c 00 24 37 01 9a 38 03 b6 3b 03 b4 3c 00 48 35 80 00 e4 6e
   10 05 54 31 ff f1 0f

   10 05 54 31 40 02 c1 3e 00 00 3f 0c 08 3b 01 9a c1 9d

   10 05 54 31 2d 7f ff 3d 00 00 0c 00 24 37 01 9a 38 03 b6 3b 01 9a 3c 00 48 35 80 00 13 98

   10 05 54 eb ff aa 6f
   
   10 05 54 eb 40 02 c3 3e 00 00 3f 0c 08 3b 02 ab 86 e8
   
   10 05 54 eb 2d 7f ff 3d 00 00 0c 00 24 37 01 9a 38 03 b6 3b 02 ab 3c 00 48 35 80 00 df 1c
   10 05 54 36 ff f3 3f
   
   10 05 54 36 40 02 ca 3e 00 00 3f 0c 08 3b 02 a9 fb da

   10 05 54 36 2d 7f ff 3d 00 00 0c 00 24 37 01 9a 38 03 b6 3b 02 a9 3c 00 48 35 80 00 fa e0

   10 05 54 f1 ff a1 0f


I think the 10h is the id device and 05h the function which would be Write Single Coil. How did you do to find the temperature field ?

Thanks

JSouto

[mitokondoria]

I'm on my own quest to fetch data from the same thermostat.
I have been able to sniff with an Arduino + MAX485 board at 19200 baud. Still havent disconnected the thermostat, but my pattern is:

Code: [Select]

11 05 95 8B FF EE 53
11 05 95 8B 40 02 D9 3E 00 00 3F 0C 02 E1 F1
11 05 95 8B 2D 7F FF 3D 00 00 0C 00 24 37 01 9A 38 03 B6 3B 02 C4 3C 00 48 35 80 00 B9 98
11 05 95 72 FF AC 03
11 05 95 72 40 02 D3 3E 00 00 3F 0C 02 9E 1D
11 05 95 72 2D 7F FF 3D 00 00 0C 00 24 37 01 9A 38 03 B6 3B 02 C4 3C 00 48 35 80 00 41 EB
11 05 95 26 FF 92 C3
11 05 95 26 40 02 D1 3E 00 00 3F 0C 02 FF 49
11 05 95 26 2D 7F FF 3D 00 00 0C 00 24 37 01 9A 38 03 B6 3B 02 B2 3C 00 48 35 80 00 01 49
11 05 95 CD FF DC 33
11 05 95 CD 40 02 E8 3E 00 00 3F 0C 02 23 F9
11 05 95 CD 2D 7F FF 3D 00 00 0C 00 24 37 01 9A 38 03 B6 3B 02 C4 3C 00 48 35 80 00 11 DA
11 05 95 9F FF E1 53
11 05 95 9F 40 02 CD 3E 00 00 3F 0C 02 F5 B0
11 05 95 9F 2D 7F FF 3D 00 00 0C 00 24 37 01 9A 38 03 B6 3B 02 84 3C 00 48 35 80 00 F9 EC
Which would match with the 5 thermostats at my home

[Doctorandus_P]

I skimmed through this thread and I'm not even sure whether the data captured is actually correct. RS485 does not imply a uart compatible format. As long as you're not sure of that, any attempt of staring at hex values will be pointless.

If you use Sigrok + Pulseview with one of the USD10 Logic Analyser boxes with a Cypress CY7C680somethingsomething you have a much better platform to capture your data. (Especially if you add a RS485 to TTL chip)

These very affordable Logic Analysers are also wonderfull for debugging "arduino", or any other microcontroller projects that work with (low speed) serial data streams. SPI, I2S, Uart, Sigrok has more then 100 protocol decoders now.

[mitokondoria]

I'm certainly staring at those values, but after disconnecting 4 in 5 thermostats, it seems clear that the master is polling the slaves (because they were previously registered)

These messages, in my case, are following this pattern:

Code: [Select]

11 05 95 XX FF YY ZZ
When the thermostat is available, the rest of the conversation packets start with 11 05 95 XX, so it looks like XX is the id of each thermostat, while FF whould be the ping message

The other conversation messages have XX with values 40 and 2D (in my understanding, they could map to a slave-pong&message / master ack-message messages)

the pong also includes additional info once the setup temperature has been modified

I have modified the configured the temperature and the bytes having the value on Fahrenheit for the ack are 02 96

Code: [Select]

11 05 95 9F 2D 7F FF 3D 00 00 0C 00 24 37 01 9A 38 03 B6 3B 02 96 3C 00 48 35 80 00 CB ED
while the slave pong&message includes the same 02 96

Code: [Select]

11 05 95 9F 40 02 C7 3E 00 00 3F 0C 02 3C 00 48 3B 02 96 AF 2A
With this, I'm fairly confident on the correct captured data, even on a different rate. I still have to find where is the actual temperature being set and if part of the message includes a master-turn-on-the-heating value, tho.

About the sigrok usage, I will go for it as seems the proper way to go, instead of finding on a text editor

Edit: As per https://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/crc-calculation, the last two bytes match the modbus crc-16, so the dump is definetly correct

Edit2: found an Uponor document describing each modbus frame format https://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/446274/Uponor_IM_Smatrix_Base_PRO_MODBUS-RTU_EN_1090255_032018.pdf

and more important:
* requests to switch modes, from eco to confort
* requests to write the setpoint
* request to read a sensor temp

[jsouto]

Hi,

Here are my advance:

110568d8ff4353
110568d84002c23e00003f0c03420019080a0d0965de0a000ce983
110568d82d7fff3d00040c002437019a3803b63b02ba3c0048358000bc19
110568d8 – Living room thermostat
40 – Id SetPoint temperature
02c2 – Value
2d7ff – Id real temperature
02ba – Value

Which model of thermostat do you have??

[dimmu311]

Hi,
i have also Uponor Device. I want to repace the original uponor room thermostat and use home automation system that has rs485 interface.

With the Infos form here and with the log of one of my thermostat, i think i have some more idea of the protocol, but it is still something missing.

i also have a set nearly looks like the other ones postet here.

10   4   21   77   FF   D3   49                                                                     
10   4   21   77   40   3   4   3E   0   0   3F   0C   8   3B   2   B3   53   D0                                    
10   4   21   77   2D   7F   FF   3D   0   0   0C   0   24   37   1   9A   38   3   B6   3B   2   B3   3C   0   48   35   80   0   4A   31

see this set for example.

i think the first byte is something like device type. i use t145, wich is more basic one then yours.
i think uponor uses diffrent values for diffrent thermostat types.

i also think that this is a poll message form the controller to get the the values from the connectet thermostats.
10   4   21   77   FF   D3   49   

in my case the termostat answers with this to packets.
i think i have found something intressting.
see this messages. i have removed the header at the beginning and the crc at the end
I think the message follows a simple rule. 1 byte messege code, 2 bytes value.
using this rules i think about that:

40   3   4   3E   0   0   3F   0C   8   3B   2   B3                                    
2D   7F   FF   3D   0   0   0C   0   24   37   1   9A   38   3   B6   3B   2   B3   3C   0   48   35   80   0

40 = actual temp = x03x04 -> 772 -> (772-320)/18 = 25,1°C
3E = ?
3F = ?
3B = set Point temp = x2x3B -> 571 -> (571-320)/18 = 20,6°

and the second packet
2D = ? not sure, maybe a value in twos complement. in KNX 7fff is reserved for not available value.
3D = ?
0c = humidity? -> sure about this. the value could be posible, but i dont know if this thermostat is able to messure humidity.
37 = Min possible Set Point Temp (5°C)
38 = Max possible Set Point Temp (35°C)
3B = again the setpont temp
3C = ?

after i study the modbus document i think ther should be some values for:
heating/cooling mode,
day/night mode,
diffrent setpoint temp in cooling mode
diffrent setpoint temp in night mode  (maybe after the 2D) could be -2K or something
actual humidity
setpoint humidity.

so now the problem is: on my thermostat i can only change the setpoint temp. When i change the setpoint temp i can see diffrent value after 3B. When i use hairdryer i can see higher value after 40.

could maybe one of you check if my theory could be bossible? Or mybe somone of you have thermostat wher you can see humidity, or something else to double check if i have found right messeg code.

i have attached excel sheet. you can put your message there and it calculates the thinks i found out.

Thank you

[TBuyukkilic]

Hi guys,
This topic really helped me out on my quest. I'm a bit stuck and I don't really know what to do, hopefully you can help out.

So I have a Uponor Smatrix Base X-245 base station with the Uponor Smatrix Base T-146 Bus thermostats. I have 8 of them hooked up, and this is the output I can read using a Raspberry Pi 3B+ and a MAX485 device:

Code: [Select]

110c1bcaffbdb4
110c1bca40027d3e00003f0c023c00483b026042b300c856
110c1bca2d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b02603c00483580002928
110c28beff6abb
110c28be4002753e00003f0c0242b3003f71
110c28be2d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b02073c004835800077e1
110c0566ffa0b2
110c05664002753e00003f0c0242b3003285
110c05662d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b02073c00483580008c01
110c04c9ff8c82
110c04c94002d23e00003f0c0242b30011b2
110c04c92d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b02c33c0048358000f596
110c04eaff95b2
110c04ea4002c13e00003f0c0242b3009a8b
110c04ea2d7fff3d00400c002437019a3803b63b02c43c0048358000c2b8
110c04c5ff8982
110c04c54002a03e00003f0c0242b300a39f
110c04c52d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b027c3c00483580004432
110c04dbff8022
110c04db4002c43e00003f0c0242b300c9ea
110c04db2d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b02c33c00483580000ab1
110c055dffb382
110c055d4002873e00003f0c0242b300cdf7
110c055d2d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b027c3c00
So I was really happen when I was able to read the actual and set temperature values from this response. Since the request/responses adhere to the CRC-16 (Modbus) check, I started an attempt to set the temperatures. So I've installed the Python package minimalmodbus and configured my instrument as follows:

Code: [Select]

import minimalmodbus
from gpiozero import OutputDevice
de = OutputDevice(23)
re = OutputDevice(24)
de.off()
re.off()
instrument = minimalmodbus.Instrument('/dev/serial0', 1, minimalmodbus.MODE_RTU)
instrument.serial.timeout = None
instrument.debug = True

But whatever command I try to send, e.g. instrument.read_register(40006,0,3,True) to read the value set for channel 6, I keep getting the "11 0C" response, which indicates that it's an functioncode 12 "Get Comm Event Log" response.

This is the error:

Code: [Select]

>>> instrument.read_register(40006,0,3,True)
MinimalModbus debug mode. Will write to instrument (expecting 7 bytes back): 01 03 9C 46 00 01 4B 8F (8 bytes)
MinimalModbus debug mode. Clearing serial buffers for port /dev/serial0
MinimalModbus debug mode. No sleep required before write. Time since previous read: 2965.81 ms, minimum silent period: 2.01 ms.
MinimalModbus debug mode. Response from instrument: 11 0C 1B CA FF BD B4 (7 bytes), roundtrip time: 7.0 ms. Timeout for reading: 0.0 ms.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/dist-packages/minimalmodbus.py", line 486, in read_register
    payloadformat=_Payloadformat.REGISTER,
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/dist-packages/minimalmodbus.py", line 1245, in _generic_command
    payload_from_slave = self._perform_command(functioncode, payload_to_slave)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/dist-packages/minimalmodbus.py", line 1330, in _perform_command
    response, self.address, self.mode, functioncode
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/dist-packages/minimalmodbus.py", line 1875, in _extract_payload
    responseaddress, slaveaddress, response
minimalmodbus.InvalidResponseError: Wrong return slave address: 17 instead of 1. The response is: '\x11\x0c\x1bÊÿ½´'
Do you guys know what to do? Is it possible that the Uponor Smatrix Base X-245 only has a subset of the Modbus functions implemented? If so, what would my best shot be to write something back?

I tried to capture a possible request to change the temperature, but all I can see is the log where I went from 21,5°C (707°K, \x02\xc4) to 25,0°C (770°K, \x03\x02)

Code: [Select]

110c04eaff95b2
110c04ea4002c43e00003f0c02 42b3008a9b
110c04ea2d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b02c43c0048358000d777

110c04eaff95b2
110c04ea4002c43e00003f0c02 3c00483b030242b3004466
110c04ea2d7fff3d00000c002437019a3803b63b03023c0048358000b0b7

110c04eaff95b2
110c04ea4002c43e00003f0c023c00483b030242b3004466
110c04ea2d7fff3d00400c002437019a3803b63b03023c0048358000a578

110c04eaff95b2
110c04ea4002c43e00003f0c0242b3008a9b
110c04ea2d7fff3d00400c002437019a3803b63b03023c0048358000a578

[mitokondoria]

could maybe one of you check if my theory could be bossible? Or mybe somone of you have thermostat wher you can see humidity, or something else to double check if i have found right messeg code.

Hi dimmu311,

I own a SMatrix Wave with five T146 thermostats. Such thermostats doesn't have any humidity sensor, only a configurable remote temperature sensor.
My only available settings on the unit is modifying the ECO temperature and defining this remote sensor.

I'm working on completing a sketch for a Wemos D1 mini + MAX485 behaving as a sniffer and publishing to a MQTT topic (so homeassistant displays several climate entities). Will publish it as soon as it is "fine"


Edit: I have uploaded thee sketch at https://github.com/witokondoria/homeassistant_uponor

[mitokondoria]

I would think that uponor is not following the Modbus protocol partially on each different product

My Smatrix base only uses the function code 0x05 (write single coil) maybe because all of my units are T146. On programmable thermostats (T148), other function codes might be used

[TBuyukkilic]

I made some progress, it's not an actual Modbus implementation, but they kind of did their own version.

- I can query the status, using the FF function code
- I can set the setpoint temperature by sending ID + SETTING + VALUE + CRC, however I need to send an empty or invalid value first e.g. 3B00003B0269
- I can only access other settings in the thermostat after a reset, however after registration I can nog longer access some settings, because I think the capabilities are hardcoded in the base unit

Request

Code: [Select]

data: 110C1BCA FF BDB4
ID: 110C1BCA
FUNCTION: FF (get status?)
CRC: BDB4

Response

Code: [Select]

data: 110C1BCA 4002AB 3E0000 3F0C02 42B300 D8AA
ID: 110C1BCA
ALLOW_COOLING (3F: 0C02): True
CURRENT_TEMPRATURE (40: 02AB): 20.17
OPERATING_MODE (3E: 0000): Room Temprature
UNKNOWN5 (42: B300): B300
CRC: D8AA

Response 2, not sure what triggers this

Code: [Select]

data: 110C1BCA 2D7FFF 3D0000 0C0024 37019A 3803B6 3B0269 3C0048 358000 3F0402 ACEA
ALLOW_COOLING (3F: 0402): True
ECO_SET_BACK (3C: 0048): 4.0
HEATING (3D: 0000): False
SETPOINT_TEMP (3B: 0269): 16.5
SETPOINT_TEMP_MAX (38: 03B6): 35.0
SETPOINT_TEMP_MIN (37: 019A): 5.0
UNKNOWN1 (0C: 0024): 0024
UNKNOWN2 (2D: 7FFF): 7FFF
UNKNOWN4 (35: 8000): 8000
CRC: ACEA


Code: [Select]

3F: Allow cooling - Some fuzzy logic here, it looks like hex value -2 /1024 returns an int, 1 is true, 2 is false, and 3 seems to be true....
40: Current temperature - degrees = int(str(value), 16); return ((degrees - 320) / 1.8) / 10
3E: Operating mode - "0000": "Room Temprature", "0001":"Internal with floor max/min","0002":"Remote Outdoor", "0003":"Remote Sensor"B300
42: No idea, returns B300 at all themorstats
3C: Eco setback,  weird logic, degrees = int(str(value), 16); return degrees / 18
3D: Heating, "0000": False, "0040": True
3B: Set temperature - degrees = int(str(value), 16); return ((degrees - 320) / 1.8) / 10
37: Min temperature - degrees = int(str(value), 16); return ((degrees - 320) / 1.8) / 10
38: Max temperature - degrees = int(str(value), 16); return ((degrees - 320) / 1.8) / 10
0C: No idea, returns 0024 at all themorstats
2D: No idea, returns 7FFFF at all themorstats, but this should indicate that the data is not available, whatever 2D stands for
35: No idea, returns 8000 at all themorstats


[TBuyukkilic]

could maybe one of you check if my theory could be bossible? Or mybe somone of you have thermostat wher you can see humidity, or something else to double check if i have found right messeg code.

Hi dimmu311,

I own a SMatrix Wave with five T146 thermostats. Such thermostats doesn't have any humidity sensor, only a configurable remote temperature sensor.
My only available settings on the unit is modifying the ECO temperature and defining this remote sensor.

I'm working on completing a sketch for a Wemos D1 mini + MAX485 behaving as a sniffer and publishing to a MQTT topic (so homeassistant displays several climate entities). Will publish it as soon as it is "fine"


Edit: I have uploaded thee sketch at https://github.com/witokondoria/homeassistant_uponor

Really nice, I want to do something similar, but also allow writing. We're getting there

[drdds]

Hi there!
This is my first post. Despite I was registered time ago something happened with my previous account, that is no usable anymore.

It has been a long time since I discovered this thread and started planning my hardware and software (almost two years). In 2019 I sent a message to Alan (who started this thread) and after that started to plan. All your posts have been quite helpful to elaborate my software but still have a lot of doubts. Let’s start:

Hardware:

I’m using a RS485 server (http://www.hi-flying.com/hf5122) to interface with the controller (that is a SMATRIX BASE) and control my thermostats (all of, up to 6, them are T-146).
My settings are 19200 bps 8/1/N and I get consistent frames that are validated by means of the CRC (that matches the modbus one).

I created a server at port 9999 that copies any frame on the bus to the socket and allows me to send whatever frame.

Sofware:

I decided time ago to develop a service (written in Java) that will be running in a small linux server that gets the values from the RS485 port through TCP and posts them to a MQTT broker once they are processed.

Results so far… The server frame capture and processing part is almost ready (except for my doubts that are shared here) and the MQTT part is still pending (I hope not for a long time…)

Frames:

The usual frames I can capture from the system are:

Code: [Select]

<-  11049E8BFF9E6D
11 04 | 9E 8B | FF | CRC 9E6D [ OK ]

->  11049E8B4003373E00003F1C02FB14
11 04 | 9E 8B | Room Temp[40]( 03:37 -> 82.3F/27.94C ) || Operating mode [3E] ( 00:00 -> ROOM_TEMPERATURE || Params1 [3F] ( 1C:02 ->  [Cold] ) || CRC FB14 [ OK ]

->  11049E8B2D7FFF3D10400C002437019A3803B63B02CC3C0048358000D8B9
11 04 | 9E 8B |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:40 -> YES [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CC -> 71.6F/22.0C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC D8B9 [ OK ]



My analysis of the frames:

really modbus?

In principle observing the frame staring with "11 04" anyone may think it is modbus requesting registers (0x04) to station 17 (0x11), however, observing others’ posts (that were quite helpful) I discovered that changes with the system. For instance, dimmu311 reports frames staring with "10 4" that also fits into the hypothesis, but jsouto reports "10 05" that does not fit! also TBuyukkilic reports "11 0c" that also does not fit! So…. This is something proprietary.

I assumed first two bytes as SYSTEM ID (11 04)

I assumed third and fourth bytes as the STATION ID (thermostat, 9E 8B in the example).

I agree that FF may be status request as mitokondoria suggests for requests (<-)

The data in responses are sets of the sequence ID (1byte) Payload(2 byte).

So it is not modbus despite frame CRC matches.


What about the data?

I strongly relied on what TBuyukkilic provided in a previous post. Let me show my conclusions on the values and my doubts:

Code: [Select]

->  11049E8B4003373E00003F1C02FB14
11 04 | 9E 8B | Room Temp[40]( 03:37 -> 82.3F/27.94C ) || Operating mode [3E] ( 00:00 -> ROOM_TEMPERATURE || Params1 [3F] ( 1C:02 ->  [Cold] ) || CRC FB14 [ OK ]


* ID 0x40 (room temperature)   400337
(03:37 -> 82.3F/27.94C)
DOUBTS: No doubt at all! This is crystal clear! I have double checked it. In uponor documents they claim they convert it using (F-320)/18. I’m doing the traditional way and also matches.


* ID 0x3E (operating mode) 3E0000

Code: [Select]

ROOM_TEMPERATURE(0x0000, "Room Temperature"), INTERNAL_FLOOR_SENSOR(0x0002, "Internal floor sensor"), REMOTE_OUTDOOR_SENSOR(0x0003, "Remote Outdoor sensor"), REMOTE_SENSOR(0xB300, "Remote sensor");


DOUBTS: TBuyukkilic , where did you get that??!!! It is great and seems to match! Thanks a lot!


*  ID 0x3F (allow cooling??) 3F1C02
I process it this way:

Code: [Select]

hot = ((currently&0xF000) == 0x0000) ? true : false;
cold = ((currently&0xF000) == 0x1000) ? true : false;


DOUBTS: TBuyukkilic calls it Allow Cooling, but I noticed that 0xF000&Value=0x0000 for heating (winter) and  0xF000&Value=0x1000 for cooling (summer)… but I can’t say anything else about the rest  that would be C02 taking out the first 4 bits…

Code: [Select]

->  11049E8B2D7FFF3D10400C002437019A3803B63B02CC3C0048358000D8B9
11 04 | 9E 8B |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:40 -> YES [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CC -> 71.6F/22.0C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC D8B9 [ OK ]


*  ID 0x2D (no idea!) 2D7FFF
DOUBTS: everyone get 7FFF but no idea!

*  ID 0x3D (I named it demand)  3D1040
I processed this way:

Code: [Select]

demanding = ((currently&0x00FF) == 0x0040) ? true : false;
hot = ((currently&0xFF00) == 0x0000) ? true : false;
cold = ((currently&0xFF00) == 0x1000) ? true : false;


DOUBTS: So 0x0000 means actuators for this thermostat are not demanding water during heating, 0x0040 demands water (heating), 0x1000 no demand (cooling), 0x1040 demands (cooling). Do you observe the same?

* ID 0x0C (no idea) 0C0024
Always the same value!
DOUBTS: did you observed something different? Are you all using t-146 (may be the model). It may also has something to do with display configurations at thermostat?

* ID 0x38 Setpoint MIN
* ID 0x37 Setpoint MIN, as room temperature. Also documented by uponor that is maximum 35 and minimum 5. So, crystal clear!

*  ID 0x3B  (setpoint)  3B02CC
I process it as Room temperature but get always two degrees LESS that the actual setpoint (at least in cooling mode – need to check in heating mode..)
DOUBTs: do you read the exact temperature? Or you need to increase it by 2 (in Celsius)??

* ID 0x3C and ID 0x35, no idea at all.

Thanks for your time and let’s see if you can bring any light to all this!

I add some traffic for analysis:

Code: [Select]

Client... started
->  110470642D7FFF3D10000C002437019A3803B63B02CD3C004835800087C5
11 04 | 70 64 |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:00 -> NO [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CD -> 71.7F/22.06C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC 87C5 [ OK ]
<-  11047069FFB6F8
11 04 | 70 69 | FF | CRC B6F8 [ OK ]
->  110470694002EA3E00003F1C02F162
11 04 | 70 69 | Room Temp[40]( 02:EA -> 74.6F/23.67C ) || Operating mode [3E] ( 00:00 -> ROOM_TEMPERATURE || Params1 [3F] ( 1C:02 ->  [Cold] ) || CRC F162 [ OK ]
->  110470692D7FFF3D10000C002437019A3803B63B02CD3C00483580002C53
11 04 | 70 69 |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:00 -> NO [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CD -> 71.7F/22.06C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC 2C53 [ OK ]
<-  11047064FFB268
11 04 | 70 64 | FF | CRC B268 [ OK ]
->  110470644002F13E00003F1C02CB99
11 04 | 70 64 | Room Temp[40]( 02:F1 -> 75.3F/24.06C ) || Operating mode [3E] ( 00:00 -> ROOM_TEMPERATURE || Params1 [3F] ( 1C:02 ->  [Cold] ) || CRC CB99 [ OK ]
->  110470642D7FFF3D10000C002437019A3803B63B02CD3C004835800087C5
11 04 | 70 64 |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:00 -> NO [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CD -> 71.7F/22.06C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC 87C5 [ OK ]
<-  1104708CFFFC68
11 04 | 70 8C | FF | CRC FC68 [ OK ]
->  1104708C4002EB3E00003F1C02F5E4
11 04 | 70 8C | Room Temp[40]( 02:EB -> 74.7F/23.72C ) || Operating mode [3E] ( 00:00 -> ROOM_TEMPERATURE || Params1 [3F] ( 1C:02 ->  [Cold] ) || CRC F5E4 [ OK ]
->  1104708C2D7FFF3D10000C002437019A3803B63B02CD3C00483580007FDA
11 04 | 70 8C |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:00 -> NO [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CD -> 71.7F/22.06C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC 7FDA [ OK ]
<-  11047124FFD268
11 04 | 71 24 | FF | CRC D268 [ OK ]
->  110471244002F73E00003F1C02ABB1
11 04 | 71 24 | Room Temp[40]( 02:F7 -> 75.9F/24.39C ) || Operating mode [3E] ( 00:00 -> ROOM_TEMPERATURE || Params1 [3F] ( 1C:02 ->  [Cold] ) || CRC ABB1 [ OK ]
->  110471242D7FFF3D10400C002437019A3803B63B02CD3C00483580003C20
11 04 | 71 24 |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:40 -> YES [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CD -> 71.7F/22.06C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC 3C20 [ OK ]
<-  1104706DFFB438
11 04 | 70 6D | FF | CRC B438 [ OK ]
->  1104706D4002EC3E00003F1C02D6B7
11 04 | 70 6D | Room Temp[40]( 02:EC -> 74.8F/23.78C ) || Operating mode [3E] ( 00:00 -> ROOM_TEMPERATURE || Params1 [3F] ( 1C:02 ->  [Cold] ) || CRC D6B7 [ OK ]
->  1104706D2D7FFF3D10000C002437019A3803B63B02CD3C00483580007976
11 04 | 70 6D |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:00 -> NO [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CD -> 71.7F/22.06C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC 7976 [ OK ]
<-  11049E8BFF9E6D
11 04 | 9E 8B | FF | CRC 9E6D [ OK ]
->  11049E8B40033A3E00003F1C0227D4
11 04 | 9E 8B | Room Temp[40]( 03:3A -> 82.6F/28.11C ) || Operating mode [3E] ( 00:00 -> ROOM_TEMPERATURE || Params1 [3F] ( 1C:02 ->  [Cold] ) || CRC 27D4 [ OK ]
->  11049E8B2D7FFF3D10400C002437019A3803B63B02CC3C0048358000D8B9
11 04 | 9E 8B |  ID: 2D | Val 7FFF || Demand water[3D]( 10:40 -> YES [Cold] ) ||  ID: 0C | Val 0024 || SetPoint Temp Min [37] ( 01:9A -> 41.0F/5.0C ) || SetPoint Temp Max [38]( 03:B6 -> 95.0F/35.0C ) || SetPoint Temp[3B]( 02:CC -> 71.6F/22.0C )  ||  ID: 3C | Val 0048 ||  ID: 35 | Val 8000 || CRC D8B9 [ OK ]


[drdds]

Hi there,

I have had very productive days in row and I have a prototype for this.

All the details can be found at https://github.com/ddsuc3m/uponor-floorheating
Also I opened a discussion in OpenHab https://community.openhab.org/t/control-uponor-underfloor-heating-thermostats/135969

Some things that were open:

- Eco set back is exactly as you mentioned before, so it is updated in code
- Do you have a timer (I-143) to monitor how the controller changes the thermostats?
- Can you please post your controller and thermostats models together with some traffic (I think the first two bytes are the controller model - or related)?
- Any of you has a thermostat provinding humidity? (so we can findout the humidity command that is maybe one of the unknown fields)

Thanks!

[drdds]

There are new updates to the software since it crashed after few hours.
Now seems to be stable

Regards!

[TBuyukkilic]

Sorry for the late reply, but my base unit is a Uponor Smatrix Base Pulse X-245 BUS 6X, it would be nice to map these to values as well.

Edit: btw I got the operating mode and such from the manuals. I see in this thermostat settings like units (F or C), light, auto on/off, these might be the values for the missing settings. Source: https://www.uponor.com/getmedia/4114b1ac-c794-40cb-ac08-0a192915a8fb/single%20stage%20setpoint%20controller%20with%20floor%20sensor%20user%20manual.pdf?sitename=Canada