FRAM Card for HP8590 Series - Project

[Miti]

It's interesting that I've never seen any issue/ error in the spectrum analyzer but the reader/programmer has some instabilities that I can't figure out.

@MarkL, if you have time, can you please check what messages you get if you try to save something on a write protected RAM card and on a ROM card?
I want to see if I got the status signals right.

Thanks,
Miti

[MarkL]

It's interesting that I've never seen any issue/ error in the spectrum analyzer but the reader/programmer has some instabilities that I can't figure out.

@MarkL, if you have time, can you please check what messages you get if you try to save something on a write protected RAM card and on a ROM card?
I want to see if I got the status signals right.

Thanks,
Miti

I tried it.  The SA treats an SRAM card with write-protect enabled the same as a ROM card.  An attempted write to either results in "INVALID CARD: TYPE" displayed on the screen, along with "SRQ 140".

The UI seems to be a little pedantic.  When saving the STATE, for example, I have to explicitly enter a register number.  Just hitting "ENTER" to take the default register that's being displayed doesn't seem to do anything.

[Miti]

I tried it.  The SA treats an SRAM card with write-protect enabled the same as a ROM card.  An attempted write to either results in "INVALID CARD: TYPE" displayed on the screen, along with "SRQ 140".

The UI seems to be a little pedantic.  When saving the STATE, for example, I have to explicitly enter a register number.  Just hitting "ENTER" to take the default register that's being displayed doesn't seem to do anything.

Thank you, I see the same thing.

[Miti]

And here is the final product, 2.45mm thick.

[coppercone2]

hmm hp 70000 series card looks like that too

[Miti]

hmm hp 70000 series card looks like that too

Attach a picture. What Google shows me is totally different, much thicker, different connector.

[coppercone2]

I don't have one. Similar enough that this work might be useful I mean.

[Tony_G]

And here is the final product, 2.45mm thick.

Those look outstanding - Can't wait to get some, well one, at least...

TonyG

[coppercone2]

I meant that its useful from a standpoint of knowing how to design such a thing, to see what parts work, how testing is done, etc. The work you did could get rid of alot of work that is needed to make something similar even if the parts are different. It's always easier to work on something when someone figured out how to make something similar, even if its just form factor, i.e. little details like the clever way the wire plugs into the ZIF socket for development

[Miti]

Those look outstanding - Can't wait to get some, well one, at least...

TonyG

Thanks, if there's any interest I will get some assembled by JLC.

[Tony_G]

I'd be more than happy to pay for a pre-assembled one, but if you're publishing the PCB and Enclosure Models then I could also make my own.

Look forward to what comes next.

TonyG

[Miti]

I tried selecting 28C040 instead of DS1250 with my TL866 II Plus and seems to be more stable but still not perfect. I’ll have to scope it this weekend and see if I can figure out if there’s a timing issue.

[Miti]

Hi Mark,

I received your card, thank you very much!
I copied it into one of my cards and it shows exactly what the original one shows, please see the attachments.
I loaded the DLP and it adds an EMC ANALYZER line in the menu. However, if I press it, the SA freezes with a FREQ UNCAL message on the display. I assume it is because the card is not for HP8594E, it is marked For use in HP8590B, HP8591A, HP8592B, HP8593A. Not important, my goal was reading it and that works perfect. What puzzled me a bit was that the number of records is 128, suggesting 32KB, but in the binary that I saved the content repeats every 128KB. Maybe the memory size is 128KB but only 32KB is used.

On another note, my cards are unstable in the reader/ writer but I have not seen any issue in the analyzer, suggesting that I may have to revisit the schematic, if I want to hard copy them.
One possibility is that, the programmer may leave the outputs in unknown state after programming. My circuit is supplied externally therefore a floating /WE while the power is on can do a lot of bad things. The reset circuit complicates things for the programmer on both voltage level and reset time.
I'll dig deeper tomorrow.

[Miti]

That was it, floating inputs from the programmer while the external power was on was the cause. To fix the issue I replaced the 3.3V regulator with one that has a faster startup, then I replaced the power supervisor with one with a lower threshold and a shorter reset time, now it doesn't need external power because it goes out of reset before the programmer starts the data transfer. After tens of memory verifications, not one glitch with both TL866 II Plus and Xeltek SP5000. I only have one supervisor with the correct specs so I tested the second one without the supervisor and it still worked well. I'm sure they need it though.

[Miti]

Ha, look what I found on Ali. They need a bit of re-engineering to make them wider and add shutter openers, but nothing that is too much for a 3D printer.
Working on the reader/ programmer, please stay tuned.

[Miti]

I'm also working on V2 FRAM card. I'm planning the following changes:

- Add a pull-up on LWE and a pull-down on CE.
- Add configuration resistors to chose the capacity, make it anything from 512KB to 32KB, in case the mass Memory Module on the back of 8563E doesn't accept more than 32KB, and for other unforeseen cases where a lower size is needed. Is this modification useless, really, does anyone know? I couldn't find this info anywhere.
- Move the components back from the edge connector as it is a flexing point. The board being only 0.8mm thick it flexes a bit at the connector.
- Should I remove the RAM /ROM selection switch? Is there any good reason to make it look like a ROM?

Cheers,
Miti

[Miti]

And here's the programmer.

Edit: Sure it works with more professional programmers, such as Xeltek, as well.

[Miti]

And this is the end of this successful winter project, I assembled and tested V2. If anybody is interested, please PM me.

Cheers,
Miti

[Tony_G]

I was lucky enough to be able to get one of these cards to try out in my 8563E. For those not familiar, unlike the 8590E series, the 8560E series doesn't have a card slot on the front. It uses something called the 85620A Mass Memory Module. This module has a slot in it that you can put a card into.

Having played around with writing some code to access the card, I'm pretty sure that the intent of this slot was to be used to deploy DLPs to the memory module, and not as a medium for storing information. I say this because functionality that you would think should be there really isn't, for example, you can use DISPOSE ALL to clear the memory of the mass memory module, but not the card. You have to format the card to clear it, or manually delete each file on the card from the 8563E. However, you can't format it over GPIB, or at least I couldn't work out how to get it to format (you can issue a FORMAT command, but it appears to then be waiting for some additional parameters that should be the number of entries, but aren't).

Now, clearly, they did have some use case for a RAM card as they offered the 85700A & 85702A cards, but in my opinion, the implementation of the RAM card usage was pretty poor, so I have to believe that the use case was niche.

Anyway, this isn't a problem for me because what I wanted the card for was to act as a backup for my 85671A & 85672A DLP-based utilities (having let the battery fail in my 85620A I lost them. Upside, this led me to write a utility that you can use to push the DLPs back to the module from an image on KO4BB's site - https://github.com/TGoodhew/DLPBits).



So I wanted to just describe my experience with it. Overall, the card is well-made and of high quality. Serious applause to Miti for creating it, really well done.

It fits nicely into the slot in my 85620A:





Slotting the module back on the SA and the card is identified:



Can be formatted and written to using the SA:



If you have an 8590 series SA or really need the ability to move stuff between 8560 series SAs then I would absolutely recommend the card if Miti does a run of them.

The two issues I had are, firstly, the card sits a bit proud of the top of the SA when installed:



I'm not sure if that was also the case with the original cards; I have never actually seen one, but it might be something to consider in a v2 product.

Secondly, it seems that the 8563E (and I assume the rest of the 8560E family) will only see ~112KB of space (114432 bytes)- Not an issue with the card though, just a limitation I think in the SA.

If anyone has questions, please let me know.

TonyG

[Miti]

Thank you for the review Tony!
The card length is the same as the real one but I can make it shorter. How much shorter can be to still be able to extract it from 8560?

[Tony_G]

There is a ton of space, as you can see from the 3rd picture.

However, I think 3-4mm from the bottom of the cutout would be fine - I'd be more concerned about the 8590 series and whether you can still extract the card from the slot.

TonyG

[Tony_G]

In case anyone is interested - I did a small app to access the card - https://github.com/TGoodhew/MemCardTest

TonyG

[dinix]

Hi, I’m impressed by the technical expertise demonstrated in this topic, congratulations.
I have an HP 8594E and would like to back up my DLPs, as well as share them.
@Miti : Will it be possible to build or purchase the memory card and the adapter for the programmer socket?

Best regards