Author Topic: Hand Tools .... side cutters  (Read 11394 times)

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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Hand Tools .... side cutters
« on: April 05, 2010, 06:58:05 am »
Hello People , I am an electronics engineer from Greece ,
I decided to upgrade some of my old hand tools with new .

And this days I am looking for a decent high precision  side cutter .

Do not laugh with the question !!  

What happened to me are ,  that I found some , made by " Knopix " or other European brands ,
and their prices  are totally extreme ..  over  20 EUR and some Over 30 EUR ..
Did this planet got mad , or I am the one who has the problem ?

Any way , share with me , if you like , what brands do you trust ,
and if possible , post a picture of your favorite tool ( side cutter ) ..

I do like to get something better than the standard cheap Taiwan made ,
but not to kill my pocket too !!!  

Thanks..
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2010, 12:04:55 pm »
Kyriakos,

I know that Knipex is not cheap but... You will probably never need another pair again. I am using Knipex and Wiha for electrical work here in the US and they are the best tools I have ever owned. Both companies make ESD tools as well.
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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2010, 06:31:38 pm »
Hi  PetrosA ..

Well by searching  ebay for hours , I gathered some info about the existing competition  ;D

The American " XURON "  does the 900X  series ..  http://www.xuron.com/industrial/shears.htm

Germany goes with " Knipex "

Sweden does with .. " Lindstrom "  and  " EC "

There is another called as " Bahco "   ( chrome vanadium )

And the last one with " normal pricing "  Looks to be the Italian  " piergiacomi " ,
that looks to be,  side by side  with " XURON "  , but the Italians haves a better grip ..
http://www.piergiacomi.com/en/html/main.htm  ( Use IE to visit them )

And the last in the line , are the known cheap Taiwan made ( black with red grip) , that many tool companies,
haves the same version , with just their name on it ,  " Rolson " & " Draper " ..

So far the Italians , have gain my favor ... But I will give a look also to  " Wiha " , so to see how it compares ..  with the rest ..

Any one who has experience with the above brands , it would be useful to add a comment ..

Thanks ..  
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 09:55:44 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline XynxNet

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2010, 07:59:00 pm »
Knipex is the Fluke of pliers. They are worth every cent.
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2010, 09:24:05 pm »
Just before you buy, check these out... to use one of Dave's phrases, they're like "sex on a stick" :)

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1367&groupID=1480

And check this out for prices, he usually has them the cheapest:

http://chadstoolbox.com/75-79electronicsdiagonalcutters.aspx
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 09:26:49 pm by PetrosA »
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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2010, 10:50:57 pm »
I can not take my eyes from the Italian ,  its not the brand ... its the price and specs ..

The model ITR-30 ,  are the hardened professional version , with pricing around 12 Euros ..
Found locally the  TR-30 ( non hardened ) for 9 EUR .. but not the ITR-30

link from Italy .. http://www.crtelettronica.it/dettagli.php?product_id=1788&PHPSESSID=04bd4d202666c45d195c3f316722a4c8

The PIERGIACOMI ITR-30 its the only one direct equivalent , in comparison with the German boys ,
at a half price ..

Yes, price matters too.

Any way , still seeking info .. 

 
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 01:09:10 am »
Oh well , I will taste to the "sex on a stick" ;D

Super-Knips 125mm 78 61 125 ESD
Got one from UK ... €23.68 EUR  (£20.39 GBP) Shipped ..

The Italian special line, was not available in Greece .. Only the average line..

So , just got from ebay one  "sex on a stick" , plus two used ones " XURON " 9200 ,
for another  15 EUR shipped .
I have a portable tool box , plus the repairs bench , its one with their set of tools.


Both cutters from both brands , are top of the line hardened ..

In 10 days , or so I will start benchmarking them  ..    ;D

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150423241621
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170467211324
 

Offline switcher

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2010, 07:24:54 am »
Knipex?
No, no, no.

The Fluke of cutters is Lindstrom with Bahco a close second.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2010, 10:49:52 am »
The Fluke of cutters is Lindstrom with Bahco a close second.

If this is true , we are in problems ... Fluke has an warranty of 10 years the most..  LOL  ;D
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 09:57:24 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline RayJones

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2010, 10:56:35 am »
If you want to stop leads flying across the room, try filling the closed cutter jaws with silicone, then slice down the jaws with a razor blade once set.
End result is a pair of intimate silicone rubber lead grippers.

If you find you don't like it, simply rip the silicone away later.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2010, 11:10:14 am »
One picture is 1000 words my friend ... so just post one . :)
 

Offline Zad

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2010, 12:48:12 pm »
Go for ones with box joints rather than overlap joints if you can. This helps prevent it twisting when cutting hard wire. Lindstrom are probably the Agilent rather than Fluke :)

To stop wire flying across the room, just rest the top of your forefinger in the end of the wire as you cut it. It takes a bit of getting used to, but after a while you won't realise you are doing it.

Offline lhc

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 06:13:23 am »
I'm using Knipex - best cutters ever! Also Wiha SoftFinish best screwdrivers, working with them is a pleasure :)
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2010, 09:54:34 pm »
I do not believe a word ...  ;D  LOL

The gladiators ...

Taiwan  VS Germany VS  U.S.A

Round No1  



Round No2



Now you can comment ..  ;)

PS :  Yes the Knipex are almost identical in mm with the  Taiwanese one .
Knipex 2.20 mm  Taiwanese 2.25 mm  and the American 3.25mm ( per arm )  
(this are the values that I get with my micrometer at list)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 10:11:34 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 01:17:19 pm »
I can see the Taiwanese ones are junk (cutting edge is already deformed). Between the US and Knipex ones, which feel better to use for you? Do the thinner ones feel flimsy (flexible or not secure) or do the thicker ones feel too thick and clumsy?
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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 05:37:47 am »
Check the picture at the bottom...

They are limits for the Knipex .

On the picture are  Cat 7 ( orange ) ( Network cable four shielded pairs + external shield  of aluminum with coax ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_7_cable

RG58C MIL (black)  + Cat 5 ( blue ) + Parts .

The American was a killer in all .

The knipex , was able to act only at RG58 + Cat5 , there was no stress on cutting ,
the American needed just a bit of more force.

The American did the most clean cut , by very small margin against the Knipex .
If I was adding RJ plugs in  Cat5 cables, I would like to use the American, on this job .

About cutting small components , both was good at cutting leads of resistors,
both did an clean cut .
But hey this task , is easy even for the Taiwan made one, but I did not use it that softly,
in the past 10 years !!

The Knipex are limited to open up, up to 50mm , and by the spring , and by an "build in" stopper,
at the connection point of the two arms . (look the center of the spring , its an small hole with a pin)

I like the American , thumps up .. ( multi usage ) ( clean cut )

In the area of hardness , I did not made any test ,
most manufactures testing them with Piano cords,
I do not repair Pianos ..
;D

« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 05:50:23 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

alm

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2010, 09:48:06 am »
I'm quite sure that the specifications of these cutters specify a max diameter for various materials (at least for the proper ones, the cheapy probably doesn't even have specs). I'm quite sure that none of them where designed for multi-conductor or coaxial cables, they have other styles of cutters for those. To get a cleaner cut on thin wire, you need a smaller (or no) back bevel, which makes the cutting surface more fragile and less able to cut hard wire. This is why you use different cutters for piano wire then for tiny copper wires. You should be comparing them cutting small-diameter copper wire (what it was designed to), not which can take the most abuse. This is like comparing multimeters by testing how well it can drive nails.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2010, 10:30:33 pm »
30 EUR average pricing of the Knipex .... 18-25$  sale price of the Xuron , who would ever spent that money,  so to get an cutter that cuts only thin copper wire ?  

For plain PCB work , I would spent locally just  3 EUR the most ...
Even the worst made,  Chinese one , are harder than copper.

When I am referring to clear cut , I am speaking about coax cable , and the result,  in all the layers of the cable .  

I tested even plain printer paper , the Knipex did  complete separation at the cut point ,
Xuron needed more power to act the same .


Do we need them to cut paper's , no we do not , its just my observations so far .

If some one, are interested to see samples , of an specific single copper cable diameter,
just say so , and I will post the pictures.  
 

Offline qno

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2010, 11:12:38 pm »

I have a Lindstrom 8140.

For over 20 years now. If you use them wisely you can enjoy them your whole life and maybe your children.

I think they are the best. They where expensive when I bought one and now they are even more expensive.

I think they are good value for money.  The Gossen, Fluke and Agilent/HP of side cutters.

I also agree that the WiHa pico finish series screwdrivers are the best.

That's my 2 cents of knowledge added to this discussion.


Why spend money I don't have on things I don't need to impress people I don't like?
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2010, 11:15:51 pm »
30 EUR average pricing of the Knipex .... 18-25$  sale price of the Xuron , who would ever spent that money,  so to get an cutter that cuts only thin copper wire ?  


Ummmm, a professional? ;)  Good tools are expensive but they can earn for themselves many times over. The other important thing is using the proper tool for the job at hand. Small cutters like these aren't designed to give you the leverage needed for cutting through whole coax or CAT5/6/7 cables, but can be used for trimming the conductors once they're spread out. I would be very careful using any kind of sharpened cutters like these on coax since the signal wire used in some coax cables (especially those rated for plenum use) can be very hard drawn copper or a copper/steel alloy which will damage the cutting edge. I know that tools are not cheap in Greece but as part of the Eurozone, you are entitled to buy anything you want online from within the Eurozone and not be taxed on importing to Greece. If you can find the tools cheaper from Germany or wherever in the EU, just click and buy :)
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alm

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2010, 11:17:00 pm »
The specs for the Knipex 78 61 125 indicate a max. diameter of 1.6mm for soft wire and 1.2mm for medium hard wire (i.e. not piano wire). It has no back bevel, which produces very clean cuts, but makes the cutting surface weaker. If you want to cut large/hard wires, they offer for example this one, which will cut piano wire up to 3mm and soft wire up to 4.6mm (and has a large back bevel). For multi-stranded cables, they make cable shears, which will produce a much cleaner cut without pinching the cable. And I'm sure that they cost more than €30. And I'm sure you can get a heavy pair of cutters locally for €3.

I'm sure that good quality tools will survive a fair bit of abuse, but it doesn't make sense to me to buy a tool described as 'precision pliers for ultra fine cutting work, e. g. in electronics and fine mechanics', and judge it on how well it cuts coax and cat5. Why spend $100 on a DMM and only use it below 1000V? I can get a high-voltage probe for my crappy meter that will go up to 10kV for much less!
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2010, 07:21:21 am »
I know that tools are not cheap in Greece but as part of the Eurozone, you are entitled to buy anything you want online from within the Eurozone and not be taxed on importing to Greece. If you can find the tools cheaper from Germany or wherever in the EU, just click and buy :)

Well  in some cases, the retail price has nothing to do , with the local sellers .
I found Knipex products today " locally "  in the Praktiker super store , here in my town.
The prices was equally high .. But !!  ... they had only the product line for electricians,
only normal size tools , all those little "micro" tools for the electronic repairs , are not that widespread !!
(I got today one aluminum tool case 430x310x135).  ;)

About Germany , they are not cheap even locally , the maximum variation in price could be 5-6 EUR ,
but with Germany we have another problem , they have very expensive shipping prices ( post office ) for the lightweight items ,  and very cheap for the heavy ones.  
The opposite happens with UK ..  so as Greek " ebayer "  I am forced to buy from the UK,
and only if the UK market are dry , to get the same item from Germany ..  

Example:
I got from Germany  2X Panasonic large batteries , from my UPS supply ( APC 1000XL ) ,
For about  14 kilos , I payed only 17EUR ..
9 EUR are the minimum postage price for little things.

As about the cutters , I am not brands loyal, never was.
But I will admit , that If I was aware that the Xuron was that practical - multi purpose ,
I would never ever get , the specific part code of Knipex.

The Xuron looks to be able to handle even RG213 , but its lucky as tool  ;D ,
because I do not do such works any more ... LOL  

      
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 07:28:51 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2010, 07:33:57 am »
Ebay works both ways ;) Sell the Knipex before they get too used.
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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Hand Tools .... side cutters
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2010, 07:39:54 am »
I prefer to see the Knipex dying in " action " .   ;)

But the point are, that with so narrow opening, it will not find an enemy to kill it ..   ;D ;D ;D
 


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