How come this board is so cheap?

[dannyf]

I just did a search on Taobao for ad9850. Some of those chips go for 80 cents on a 1-off basis. I am sure you can do better if you negotiate for a volume buy.

They may be new or "re-packaged".

[don.r]

I can see $5 "audio grade" electrolytics being faked: cheap cap with a "Panasonic" wrapper - easy fake. I can see fake $3 MOSFETs: relabel a lower specced or generic part. $1.50 MCUs and $0.75 regulators? Not likely, just not worth the effort, even if you sell 100K.

[SArepairman]

I just did a search on Taobao for ad9850. Some of those chips go for 80 cents on a 1-off basis. I am sure you can do better if you negotiate for a volume buy.

They may be new or "re-packaged".

its ridiclous considering the 100 of quantity from AD is like 20$.!

[dannyf]

its ridiclous considering the 100 of quantity from AD is like 20$.!

That's why some people in China are making a killing on this.

By the time it is no long ridiculous to everybody else, there is no money to be made here. Pure capitalism.

[Lurch]

I would assume it would be an approximately the same effort, same lane, etc. Why bother?

Try running a legit company, then see how much it would save you if you dropped the QA, and didn't have to bother sourcing materials from legit suppliers and didn't have to check for the correct paperwork, and then also stopped caring about how many long term relationships you could build and whether anyone thought your kit was any good or not.

[AndersAnd]

The Chinese company LogicGreen has made an ATmega88 clone named LGT8F88A, but I don't think they have an ATmega328 clone (yet?).

Read this topic about the ATmega88 clone LogicGreen LGT8F88A: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/chinese-atmega88-clone

LGT8F88A VS ATmega88A http://www.lgtic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/LGT8F88A_vs_ATMega88A.pdf

Migrating from ATMega88 to LGT8F88A http://www.lgtic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/migrating_from_atmega88_to_lgt8f88a_v1.0.pdf

[Prime73]

thanks for the link. However it's about two different chips. One could think about the LGT8F88A as a "fake" ATmega88, but I don't think it's a fair thought. These are two different chips. At least that's how I see it.

[envisionelec]

In the same vein of cheaper versions of chips, there are many Chinese fabs that make clones of the parts. For example, I have on my desk a clone of a Tripath amplifier that combines the input stage and power stage in one chip vs two discrete chips. The cost is a lower S/N ratio, but the upsides are huge - just 30 cents each for a 10W (10%THD) amplifier that produces little heat!

[sleemanj]

$0.75 regulators? Not likely, just not worth the effort, even if you sell 100K.

Don't be so sure about that.  Linear regulators are indeed cheap, but I believe regs with smaller dies (and thus power handling) are not uncommon.

Add to that "domestic market" parts, which use the same part numbers as a western company, but have different performance.  For example, I have a hundred or two AMS1117-5 regulators, which are on tape, and have the appropriate markings, but in no way are they AMS parts, for starters if you go above about 10v input, they flake out.

They were sold as AMS parts.

After a while I found a datasheet that broadly matches their observed performance: http://www.sz-xiangshuo.com/templates/default/images/AMS1117.pdf

Compare the actual from AMS: http://www.advanced-monolithic.com/pdf/ds1117.pdf

[dannyf]

which use the same part numbers as a western company

2nd sourced parts are quite common: ON did it with Toshiba, Fairchild did it with many other OEMs as well. LM317 for example can be sourced form multiple vendors, as are 431 and other parts.

[sleemanj]

2nd sourced parts are quite common: ON did it with Toshiba, Fairchild did it with many other OEMs as well. LM317 for example can be sourced form multiple vendors, as are 431 and other parts.

That's true but they generally have the same or better specs than the "original" and are clear that they are their own brand.

Not always so in china.

[dannyf]

better specs than the "original"

I don't know. Wouldn't that make them a different part?

[SeanB]

Not always. Transistors are often second sourced with the alternate parts being some other transistor that may be a lot better than the original, but which still meets all the specs. Thus you might have a higher voltage rating  and higher transisiton frequency device with higher gain on a different process used as a low power medium gain unit. Often it works but sometimes this will bite you with oscillation which is not present in the original device. Often occurs with audio amplifiers where the output devices are very slow planar devices and the replacements are epi devices that are magnitudes faster and the lead inductance causes them to oscillate where the originals would not.

[dannyf]

Transistors are often second sourced with the alternate parts being some other transistor that may be a lot better than the original, but which still meets all the specs.

I actually would love to see a few of those beasts. Datasheets for the original parts and alternate parts would be helpful for such a comparison.

[johnh]

Most of postage cost is born by receiving country.   All China Post has to do is sort by the destination country.  High volume customers might already do this. Most of the cost is then born by the receiving countries postal system, which has to sort and distribute those millions of packages that come out of China/HongKong.

[johnboxall]

Most of postage cost is born by receiving country.   All China Post has to do is sort by the destination country.  High volume customers might already do this. Most of the cost is then born by the receiving countries postal system, which has to sort and distribute those millions of packages that come out of China/HongKong.

Exactly, this isn't helping here at the moment. Australia Post reckons an increasing cost of doing business is sorting and delivering the increasing number of inbound packages and parcels. More parcels that don't fit on postie bikes = more parcel contractors = more expense, none of which they can claim from the recipient. So the money comes from domestic and outbound postal charge increases, which further discourages local companies trying to export.

[tszaboo]

Most of postage cost is born by receiving country.   All China Post has to do is sort by the destination country.  High volume customers might already do this. Most of the cost is then born by the receiving countries postal system, which has to sort and distribute those millions of packages that come out of China/HongKong.

Exactly, this isn't helping here at the moment. Australia Post reckons an increasing cost of doing business is sorting and delivering the increasing number of inbound packages and parcels. More parcels that don't fit on postie bikes = more parcel contractors = more expense, none of which they can claim from the recipient. So the money comes from domestic and outbound postal charge increases, which further discourages local companies trying to export.

So you are saying that the loss because of the incoming stuff is compensated by increasing the price of the outgoing stuff. There must be a law against this.

[don.r]

Most of postage cost is born by receiving country.   All China Post has to do is sort by the destination country.  High volume customers might already do this. Most of the cost is then born by the receiving countries postal system, which has to sort and distribute those millions of packages that come out of China/HongKong.

Exactly, this isn't helping here at the moment. Australia Post reckons an increasing cost of doing business is sorting and delivering the increasing number of inbound packages and parcels. More parcels that don't fit on postie bikes = more parcel contractors = more expense, none of which they can claim from the recipient. So the money comes from domestic and outbound postal charge increases, which further discourages local companies trying to export.

So you are saying that the loss because of the incoming stuff is compensated by increasing the price of the outgoing stuff. There must be a law against this.

Why? The postal services need to at least break even. The alternative is that they charge the receiver an extra tariff for each overseas package but that would be rather inefficient.

[SeanB]

That is what the post office does here. Still cheaper than a courier, who charges even more for the same delivery.

[Orpheus]

And I guess the only way to protect MCU code is to put fanatical men with cigarettes and guns around the MCU.

Would they force us to smoke the cigarettes at gunpoint? Or just fire the cigarettes directly into us?

[don.r]

Finally received mine. Not for those in a hurry.  They look fine and legit. Work fine too.

[tszaboo]

Most of postage cost is born by receiving country.   All China Post has to do is sort by the destination country.  High volume customers might already do this. Most of the cost is then born by the receiving countries postal system, which has to sort and distribute those millions of packages that come out of China/HongKong.

Exactly, this isn't helping here at the moment. Australia Post reckons an increasing cost of doing business is sorting and delivering the increasing number of inbound packages and parcels. More parcels that don't fit on postie bikes = more parcel contractors = more expense, none of which they can claim from the recipient. So the money comes from domestic and outbound postal charge increases, which further discourages local companies trying to export.

So you are saying that the loss because of the incoming stuff is compensated by increasing the price of the outgoing stuff. There must be a law against this.

Why? The postal services need to at least break even. The alternative is that they charge the receiver an extra tariff for each overseas package but that would be rather inefficient.

When I'm sending a mail, I dont care about the financial problems of the post office. The only thing I'm paying for is to send my stuff from A to B. This method, to charge people more is fraudulent. Just imagine this for other businesses:
"This is an all you can eat restaurant, please step on the scale. We are charging fat people more because they eat more."

[dannyf]

Work fine too.

That's what matters in the end.

[dannyf]

Just imagine this for other businesses:

That's actually done millions of times every day, to avoid moral hazard.

[Rigby]

I always assumed these parts weren't purchased by those chinese suppliers.  They do a lot of manufacturing for a lot of places, and there are always waste parts in parts reels.  Those don't get tossed out, always.