SMD R/C sets - help me get started!

[Lomax]

Arguing on the internet is a waste of life.

I was talking about myself. I get worked up over nothing. Apologies.

That's the thing though: we all do. Something about the narrow channel. Lost intentions.

The labels are nice. If you find a way to stick them to test tube caps, I'll be curious to see. I am thinking the caps I have are HDPE. 

Thanks! And another good point. I haven't got the "test tubes" I ordered yet, but we shall see. There's also the challenge of making round labels with a machine that only produces rectangular strips. A jig and a hole-punch could be the solution here. In terms of space though, I don't foresee any problems fitting a useful amount of information on them, and label colour can be used for an extra dimension (package size?). That's why I wanted to show my experiments; although the resolution produced by the labeller is severely limited you can fit a surprising amount of stuff on them, probably helped by the ultra-high contrast. The photos don't really do them justice.

Why SOT-23? Because when you take them out of the tape, most of them end up on their back, and I haven't developed the knack of effortlessly getting them right-side up, again. If you adhere the cut tape to a backing board with double-stick tape, you can pick them straight out of the tape with a pickup tool or tweezers. I think I first saw this in a mikeselectronicstuff video. The first time you need to place more than 10 of the same SOT23 part at a time, you will remember this.

Hehe, yeah, I seem to recall seeing this video. I guess I can store tape strips in my boxes as well, up to 30cm long. Makes me think of this German guy who's built his own servo driven pick-n-place machine from scratch - truly impressive stuff!

[KL27x]

Cut tape is a necessary evil for small amounts of project-specific components, of course. The problem is you have to store the cut tape in something you can label. It's a redundant amount of packaging and handling, IMO, for generic, non-directional parts. I have tried sticking labels right on the cut tape and put them all in a box, but this creates a tangle of curly cut tapes of different lengths and does not sort well.

Due to the directionality, I leave most all my multi pin IC's on the reel/tube/cut tape, as well as SMD LEDs and diodes. For SOT and LEDs/diodes, I do the tape trick. But for these kinds of parts, I usually am taping just one component tape to a plaque, instead of combining all the parts for a particular PCB. So I have a little board with ~200 SOT 23 signal NFETs on it, another board with PFETs, another board with SOT-23 Schottky diodes, etc. When it runs out, I removed them and replace them... 200 at a time. I minimize handling of cut tape, and it minimizes mistakes, without having to look for an arbitrary label printed on top of an ant that is going to be different on every order of such parts (because I buy w/e is cheapest, and even for the same component, the SOT label often changes between lots). For tubed IC's, I built a tray that holds up to a complete tube of SSOP IC's in 5 slots. SSOP of QFP are my preferred IC package, if I'm going to assemble it myself. 

Some of my methods are probably overkill for the average hobbyist. Test tubes for jelly bean resistors and caps is, I think, not. I was doing the test tube thing for many years of tinkering/design before I took on any significant assembly.

Another trick I learned from doing high volumes is for getting cut tape from reels. Cut the tape only halfway through, to the little hole. Then fold it over on itself to measure out and make the next cut. Then fold it over again at this new spot so you get 2 more measured cuts. Then the next time, you get 4, etc. Then stick your cut tape accordion in a bag or a large test tube for when you need to refill a plaque.

[Lomax]

Thanks, more great info and useful suggestions. LEDs... yeah keeping them on the tape is probably a very good idea; a while back I bought 50 each of four different SMD LEDs (red, green, yellow and white) in 0603, but I didn't like the tape. It was only afterwards, when I saw them under the scope, that I realised the anode and cathode terminals look identical, and that you have to turn them over to figure out what is what. Won't be making that mistake again

The channeled plastic sheeting suggested by @Siwastaja looks like a good way to store short lengths of tape. I'm very much a hobbyist and don't go through a lot of components - the 100 of each value passives I'm buying will last me years - so I definitely won't be buying whole reels of anything!

[Apollyon25_]

Go find a local contract manufacturer (with pick and place equipment), they will usually have pulled SMD parts from reels as they load them, as they need some leader tape length prior to populated tape.
They'd probably have their own stock, and could get you a whole range of parts for cheap.
I didn't have any 1M 0402's one day, and couldn't wait the 3-4days for Digikey, so rang my CM and said hey can you spare some? I got a bag of ~100pcs the next morning.

[Siwastaja]

It might not make sense for you to have every possible capacitor value, but other people do have such requirements. Filter design is a classic case where you need a specific value to work with the limited range of available inductors. In RF filter design it is often the case that you have to tweak component values after design, to take account of inevitable implementation "suboptimalities".

Yes, and in filter design you need those exact capacitances, not a set which has fake specs at 100% certainty, as I showed (the set has impossible values).

[Lomax]

Got the clear plastic "test tube"/vial things today and the taller 2ml ones are a perfect fit standing up inside a service case, so it looks like the plan might work. They're larger than I imagined though; I've moved some 0603 SMD LEDs into the smaller 1ml ones, about 20-30 LEDs of each type - they barely cover the bottom of the tubes I reckon the 1ml tubes can hold about 150 0603 parts, so about 300 in the 2ml ones. That may be a good thing though; it's easier to control how many items you "decant" if they have plenty of wiggle room. I haven't tried sticking labels to the tops yet, but they are perfectly flat and smooth - apart from a central gate mark, which is easily removed. I'm sure labels will stick well, I just need to figure out an easy way to make round ones; my love of neat labelling does have its limits, and cutting hundreds of round labels by hand is... well... no thanks. A picture:

Edit: The plastic tray in the background is the smallest size insert for the service cases - 32 of these fit in each one. They happen to be exactly the right length to store the 2ml tubes inside, and nine of those fit in each tray, leaving enough room for a label. If you organise your storage in groups <=9 you could fit up to 288 values per service case, with 100+ pieces of each value - almost 30k individual components - while still allowing you to easily find the part you need. I still prefer standing them up though.

[KL27x]

Those labels are beautiful.

Quick, buy a lot more of those components, so you don't have to make new labels when they are out of production, lol.

they barely cover the bottom of the tubes

Any smaller and you might as well shrink wrap the parts and toss them in a black hole, lol. Those containers look plenty small enough.

[Lomax]

Those labels are beautiful.

Thank you!

Quick, buy a lot more of those components, so you don't have to make new labels when they are out of production, lol.

That's the thing though; once I've designed a template it's super easy to generate new labels for other components of the same type. I just have to enter the right parameters in the database - for LEDs it's model name, maximum voltage & current, nominal voltage & current, wavelength, brightness and angle - and hit print. Takes less than a minute, and I can also go back and re-print any label, or sets of labels. In fact, I have considered offering this as a service - that is you'd email me a list of parts you want labels for, e.g. "E24 series 1% resistors in 0603" or a list of transistor models, or any other combination of parts, and what style of labels you want - I just doubt there'd be much of a market for it. Most electronics hobbyists seem to be uninterested in labelling on this level, and the pros have completely different ways of storing parts, typically in manufacturer packaging (e.g SMD reels) which already provide this information along with barcodes etc. But I'm content doing them just for myself; building up a nice collection of parts is almost as much of a hobby as actually using them! Yeah, definitely a bit of an Aspie

they barely cover the bottom of the tubes

Any smaller and you might as well shrink wrap the parts and toss them in a black hole, lol. Those containers look plenty small enough.

Hehe, well, it's precisely the "black hole" effect I'm trying to avoid here!

[bson]

Uggh. I'm not going to dig around the bottom of a square box to get an 0603 part out of it. Not with tweezers, not with fingers (with all their natural oil and/or sweat), and not with a pickup tool.

I just grab one with the tweezers and put it on the board.  What's the problem?  Sounds like a made-up problem to me, in reality there's no problem here.  There's no "digging" involved.  Just pick one.  It's not harder to pick one from a little enclosure that's about 1/2" deep than from a tray.  Seriously.

[KL27x]

It's not harder to pick one from a little enclosure that's about 1/2" deep than from a tray.

Then maybe I have it wrong.

1/2" deep by how wide across? The boxes I am seeing look roughly square. I wonder is the bottom square, too? Or are the corners at least rounded?
https://www.pricefalls.com/product/wen-tai-blue-component-smt-smd-component-small-part-hobby-storage-snap-box-and-organizer-small-set-of-10/63049644?source=GoogleShopping&medium=cpc&term=PLA-SC&content=88933900831product_type_l1office+%26+school+supplies%26custom0p1025&campaign=5thPostulate&adpos=1o5&creative=74735359591&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CMu37Oa2yMsCFRSUfgodJ_INOw
I'm seeing very little of the bottom of the boxes in this pic, at this angle. So that means you can reach in at a 45 degree angle min (imagine a pickup tool, in particular), and only one side of the bottom of the box could be reached at this angle. And you can't even see the entire bottom unless looking directly from above.

You need to actually see the components and aim for a specific one, IME, using a pickup tool. Stabbing somewhere in the middle of a pile of 0603 caps doesn't often pick up anything.

I should like to see a pic of how you set these boxes up while populating your boards. Maybe I have it all wrong. I'm picturing a huge array of 40-50 boxes. And you then (for a larger project) unsnap them to get the ones you want. Set those up on your bench above the pcb. With the lids all up creating a potential knock-over hazard. And a potential contamination hazard of your entire stock of components. And then you have to pick up each box as you're using it to tilt it so you see what you're picking up. And when you're done you collect your boxes and snap them all back together after figuring out where they go.

For a smaller project, I guess you would just leave the array intact. Open and pick out what you need, one component at a time, to transfer to pcb or a temporary holding tray. For small parts count protos, this sounds more reasonable, anyway.

[KL27x]

Here are some pics of how I use SMD parts.

Test tube rack of passives:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/klee27x/DSC_3067_zpsjv3vu137.jpg

This is how I might arrange passive parts while populating a board. In the top left, you can see what I call my "dry funnel" which I use to put components back into the test tubes when I'm done with them, among other things. I've had one of these funnels for as long as I've been using SMD parts. The dish is easy to examine for hair or lint or other contamination before returning parts to the source. The aluminum is easy to label with a permanent marker, and it wipes off with alcohol. Even 0402 are cake to get back into the tube with only a bit of tapping.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/klee27x/DSC_3065_zpsuypftgpw.jpg

... Or I can stack the pucks and set them aside to continue the project, later. The HDPE base adds weight, stability, and it glides over a bench top. The machined groove allows them to positively stack. The hole allows a place to tap the bottom of the dish with a fingernail for tiny components that might want to cling:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/klee27x/DSC_3068_zpse1ohgsie.jpg

The pucks are sort of like the "muffin tin" idea to hold components, except sized for tiny SMD parts. And very importantly, you can pour out the contents of a single dish, lol.

For small directional components:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/klee27x/DSC_3071_zpsorzdqhtb.jpg

For specific parts I am only prototyping with on a blue moon, I don't mind digging them out, one at a time. I might heat seal them for very compact storage. I will cut open the end, take out the components, then close up the end with my soldering iron. (I also have my IC tray loaded; which I'm actually using right now; the rest is just staged for the photo, lol):
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/klee27x/DSC_3066_zpsmhahqxmq.jpg

Sounds like a made-up problem to me

You may not have a problem. It doesn't mean other people have the same applications and issues as you. Perhaps these little wentai boxes are ideal for you! I have a problem with them.

[Lomax]

I just grab one with the tweezers and put it on the board. What's the problem?

The few times I've done any SMD soldering though, I've always felt the need to place the part(s) I'm about to solder on a small flat tray first, so I can have a look at it under the scope, find the right orientation and then move it from that tray onto the PCB while looking through the scope. It may be that with practice I won't need this security blanket and can go straight from bin to PCB. 0402s are pretty damn small and fiddly though, at least to my imperfect eyes!

I find individual containers easier to work with, allowing me to pick out just the parts I need without cluttering up my workbench with component trays. It's usually pretty crammed anyway. If you want to stock whole series of resistors and capacitors, you would typically need to have at least three of those boxes on your bench (resistors+capacitors+others) to populate a board, and enough space left to unfold at least one - with individual phials/vials you can fetch only those parts you need from the storage rack instead. My through-hole storage already works like this, and I've found it to be very convenient.

There is no problem here, only different preferences. I still struggle with almost every aspect of SMD soldering; dropping/losing parts, getting parts mixed up, incorrectly identifying parts, incorrectly orienting parts, incorrectly aligning parts, blowing parts out of alignment (or off the board!), or otherwise disturbing them (e.g. on transferring to the oven), bridging legs on ICs, etc, etc. Working under a scope is a must for me, and I find that the "decant and place" workflow helps speed that up. I have no trouble counting 0402 parts with the naked eye, but I do need the scope for placing them in the correct location with the correct orientation. Ultimately, I am satisfied that the storage solution I have decided on will work well for me.

I can stack the pucks and set them aside to continue the project, later. The HDPE base adds weight, stability, and it glides over a bench top. The machined groove allows them to positively stack. The hole allows a place to tap the bottom of the dish with a fingernail for tiny components that might want to cling

I like your "pucks", neat idea - especially that they're stackable. I use one of those paint mixing trays for watercolours:

[KL27x]

The main problem with an ice-cube tray, or watercolor tray, or any multi-component tray is what to do with it when you're done. Getting the parts out of it is the pain. OTOH, if you count out the exact number of parts into each compartment, it's redundant. When you then place them from tray to board, you are repeating the same process over again. The main benefit of the pucks is they are individual containers that can be emptied, easily.

At one point, I had used a magnetic pickup tool for transferring parts out of such trays. Just a 1/4" magnet on a 1/4 dowel/plunger slipped inside the body of a Bic pen that has a thin piece of FR4 covering the end. There was additionally a plexiglass guard ring towards the end to prevent parts from sliding up the side of the pen. So you dip the thing into the compartment of parts, lift them all out, stick in the end of a test tube, then retract the plunger to release the parts.

In the long run it is not wise to repeatedly expose your stock of parts to strong magnetic fields, but this worked really well; I never had a problem with accidentally magnetizing the parts. If you like to use that kind of a tray, you might want to give it a try. Every single SMD component I have ever used can be picked up with a magnet.

BTW, an easier way to make the pucks is to just fill the bottom of a coke can with paraffin (or perhaps casting resin?). And then place another (greased) can over it while it sets, to make it stack. Then trim and file the edges of the can. I made some like that and it works fine. But I liked them so much, I went the extra mile with the HDPE.

I also use a microscope for most of my SMD soldering. But I find it faster to place them with naked eye. I just plop the parts down with a pickup tool over the fluxed pads. Then under the microscope, the part is right there with the pads to align and hold with tweezers while I tack it. No switching back and forth to get the part then look in the microscope. Just move the pcb to center the next part/pad in the FOV, and it's already there. I have practically given up on pasting/oven. Even with stencil, it just wastes my time. I only do reflow for no-lead parts, and even here I do fine with a hot air station. I'm considering selling my reflow oven; even if my volumes justified a PnP, I don't have the space. And without a PnP, my opinion of pasting/reflow is pretty low. But you might try something similar, by plopping the parts down next to the pasted pads under naked eye. Then transfer to microscope to place them.

[Lomax]

I just realised others might find it handy to use the component lists I laboriously created on Mouser for SMD resistors, so here they are:

• Yageo 0805 1% E12 resistors
• Yageo 0603 1% E12 resistors
• Yageo 0402 1% E12 resistors

They've got 100pcs of each value, but you can easily change this.

[jh15]

I just got my august order from mouser of the 100 pcs ea of 0402. Tiny so I will order lomax's 2 other Mouser lists.

Amy similar posts for caps coils and actives? I'm experienced in audio and rf, but would like to future proof to play with fpgas. embedded, like arduino shields and the like, sensors data logginh. Oh crystals too.

Buying for cost, can always mount SMDs on a through hole project.

I mostly never get to an interesting project due to lack of parts on hand.

Thanks Lomax.

Mouser project list of o4o2 parts came today, had forgotten.

[Lomax]

Amy similar posts for caps coils and actives?

I haven't done any (yet), but if anyone else has I'd be interested.

Thanks Lomax.

You're welcome, happy you found the lists useful!