HP HSTNS-PD43 PSU Hack & Feedback Circuit (Partial)

[Trurl]

I wanted to hack a high output server PSU for use during automotive ECU programming, and found this HSTNS-PD43 PSU to be a good candidate especially after finding a simple hack to boost output voltage and adjust the OVP setting.


For a better understanding of the PSU's feedback circuit I traced out the auxiliary PCB shown in the video (just the fully accessible side of the double sided/multi-layered PCB, as the backside is mostly blocked by the large main/high voltage cap) and put it in schematic form below.

HSTNS-PD43 Auxiliary PCB (Fully Accessible Side)
Photo


Schematic (Large*)
*Composite image of 8 monitor screenshots: I suggest open(click) the schematic thumbnail below, then right-click on opened schematic > "Save Image As" and reopen downloaded schematic in your preferred image viewing app, for easier viewing(zooming, jumping around etc.).


*Notes*
1. Schematic is in grid form (alphabetical rows / numeric columns). The primary side columns are marked with added "P" and are numbered right to left (to differentiate from secondary side which was completed first).

2. Main output voltage feedback points(vias) are marked "+12V+" and their simulation voltages reflect the set power rail voltage which can be other than 12V, hence the added volt meter(which is obviously not present on the PCB) to show the active set power rail voltage (e.g. 15.5V, 14V, 13.8V etc.).

3. Vias and hidden traces of which connections were confirmed, if not indicated with a visible trace, have been marked with "terminals"(line ending in a circle) and marked with the terminal's grid code, followed by the destination's device pin(s) or another grid code in parentheses - "( )" [e.g. C10(PIC-21/22) suggests, terminal in C10 connects with PIC pins 21/22].

4. Vias or trace ends who's destinations have not been determined are marked with a "?" followed by their grid locations (e.g. ?E13)

5. All caps are uniformly marked 1uF as they cannot be easily determined without desoldering and doing so would be a pain as they are so tiny. Also, the cap symbol on the schematic is for a polarized cap, but obviously those on this auxiliary PCB are NOT(please ignore the suggestion of polarization - my bad).

6. The first 1/3rd on the left is isolated from the 2/3rds on the right.

7. Ground(GND) points are marked with measured resistance values* with respect to the main output ground tab or in the primary section's case, the negative pin of the main high voltage cap(cap voltage @ 0.0V).
*e.g. 0R, 0R1, 0R2 for 0.0, 0.1, 0.2Ohm etc. - a few are higher and may not be "direct" links to ground.

[The Left Side]
1. TI UCD3138 (Digital Controller)
2. TI LMR12010 (Switching Regulator marked "SF7B")

[The Right Side]
1. Microchip dsPIC33FJ64GS606
2. TI UCC3895 (Phase-Shift PWM Controller)
3. TI LMR12010(Switching Regulator marked "SF7B")
4. Several OpAmps/Comparators

[Backside Of PCB]
There are more ICs and 3 more opto-couplers.
         

The 3 connectors in the 1st of 3 photos above from left to right are for AC input control(black), fan, and status LED. They were disconnected for better views of the backside.

[Opto-Coupler On Mainboard]
I even spotted one on the main PCB  "hiding out" between the big cap and the auxiliary PCB.


[Daughter Board]
Has numerous OnSemi FDMS039N08B N-Channel POWERTRENCH MOSFETs.


[Simulation Notes Regarding Voltage and OVP Hack]
Note: Only "passive" components(resistors, capacitors, and single diodes) were active during simulation(all "active" semiconductors were "excluded" from simulation as I do not have access to the software driving the controls, and therefore opamps/comparators would not function as they are intended).

1. In "normal" 12V operation, the 12V feedback voltage is reduced to about 2.7V at the initial comparator's negative input(LM324A pin-2, in D8), and the OVP related voltage to about 4V at LM393 pin-3(in D12).


2. When the hack resistors(12k & 4.3k as in the video) are connected, the 2.7V drops to about 1.8V, and the 4V drops to about 1.6V. Note: this is with the simulation power rail kept at 12.3V.


3. If the simulation power rail is adjusted to 15.5V output(as in the unit in the video), the 2.7V drops to 2.27V, and the 4V drops to 2.07V.


Higher valued resistors drop the FB voltages less so lower voltage boosting is possible.


If there are any issues with the schematic, I'd appreciate comments, and will update the schematic above in this first post so it is always the updated version.

Cheers~

[Trurl]

I've moved the questions from the first post to this 2nd post (for better visibility), and added some more below.

[Questions]
Despite having observed all of the above, I'm still baffled about the following:

1. What type of feedback compensator is used in this PSU's feedback circuit and where are its core traces/components on the schematic? Perhaps a "type 3" mutant not in textbooks?

2. How is the OVP being controlled and where are its core traces/components on the schematic?

3. What are the roles of the 2 switching regulators marked "SF7B" (Texas Instruments LMR12010) - 1 on the primary side and 1 on the secondary side?
* In low cost PSUs, a single switching regulator like the "SF7B" is used as the "brains" for control, and its FB(Feed Back) input's voltage divider resistors can be manipulated for voltage adjustment. But the PD43 PSU has relatively advanced ICs controlling this switching regulator(and 2 of them!), so I'm wondering how these 2 regulators are "specialized" for the digital controller on the left primary side, and for the PIC on the right secondary side.

Thanks...

[Trurl]

I've tested the HSTNS-PD43 PSU's OVP triggering with a range of OVP mod resistances over a range of voltages and relatively low power loads (6 ~ 2 Ohms). The objective was to get an idea of how this PSU's OVP triggers to determine the optimal resistance for keeping the OVP function working (instead of completely disabling it), and for it to trigger just below 16V which is its output caps' rating.

I've organized the test results into the chart (spreadsheet image) below:

HSTNS-PD43 Modified OVP Triggering Results


OVP mod resistances between 10.50k ~ 10.60k resulted in the OVP mostly triggering at 15.50V and just below(15.40V) but did not trigger below. Hence, this range would be the best resistances for keeping OVP active while being able to use the widest range of output voltages.
Please note though that I've not yet been able to test with high loads (e.g. 50~100A), to determine OVP triggering voltages at such loads. I will test this in the future once I get setup with a sufficient nichrome wire dummy load and update.

Above 15.50V, the voltage regulation is jumpy (i.e. doesn't like to be set to 15.60V and will either jump to say 15.63V or 15.53V etc.). The OVP triggering test results were also more unpredictable than at lower voltages.

* Notes About The Chart's Markings:
1. Cell Colors
- Pink: Mixed results (i.e. both triggering and not triggering at a set voltage, depending on load). OVP not triggering where desired or triggering where it shouldn't. Best to avoid.
- Yellow: Mixed results that could be acceptable, but may require further testing and/or sufficient consideration.
- Green: Mostly uniform & consistent results(i.e. all triggering or all not triggering). OVP triggering and not triggering as preferred (i.e, triggering at 15.50V and above while not trigger below).

2. The loads were 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 Ohm power resistors resulting in roughly 2~7A loading with slight differences between the different voltages set.

3. "X" = No Trigger, "O" = Trigger (A number to the right of these marks indicates consecutively repeated results (i.e. "X3" = No Trigger 3 times consecutively).

4. Each "X" or "O" marking represents 1 second held loading x4 times or fast tapping up to x20 times(or until trigger), and the hold vs fast tapping are distinguished with a slash(i.e. "/") in between (i.e. "X/O" = no trigger with hold x4 / trigger with fast tapping up to x20).

5. Red markings indicate unexpected unusual results.

6. Blue markings indicate the few test results from briefly using a wire wound pot for the OVP mod resistor. All results were "X"(OVP never triggers!) likely due to the wire wound pot's inductance messing with the OVP feedback voltage.

7. "TAPO" = (OVP) Triggers At Power ON: 12.66V x 15.00k and 15.50V x 20.35k combinations resulted in the PSU's OVP triggering at power ON.

8. Single marked cells were the very first round of test results in which hold & tapping were done randomly as opposed to by strict counting, and the resistance was infrequently checked(for temperature influenced drift). Hence, resistance drift may have lowered the accuracy of these results.

9. Multi marked cells, especially with markings in brackets (i.e. "[ ]") were recorded with much care - frequently checking the resistances (acceptable drift was kept within +/- 0.01k), the latest results in black brackets being checked before and after testing for EVERY marking.

10. For any other details, please refer to the top of the attached chart above.

Cheers...

[Nik094]

I have some questions about this hack. Im trying to run 2 in series as a lifepo4 24v charger. They both power on in series and Iv done the hack on both as well as eliminating ground to board on one of them. They both power on in series no problem and I had them pushing 78amps at 29.48v enough to charge battery to 27v. But one kept whining and hissing and turning off. So I pulled the loud one apart and turns out my ovp resistor on one the solder joint didn’t hold. So I fixed that! Go out plug them back in no more noise. But when I plug them into load (302ah 29.2v battery) and they turn off. Any ideas what it could be? I used the resistor from your comment on the YouTube video and used 8k resistors for ovp hack.

[Trurl]

I have not personally tried linking 2 units as you are doing so I can only point to those that likely have. In the YouTube video's comments, one of the earliest comments (from "1 year ago", at the time of this writing),
'Mr06Postman' commented,
"Thanks for this nate. As some one else asked, do you know which pin is for load sharing yet?"
And the OP - "Hopper"(hopperbuiltamps2135) replied,
"Bottom of power supply. 5th little pin from the end."
Keeping this in mind, your most likely method of getting some useful tips might be to reply to Mr06Postman's comment on the YouTube video's 'Comments' section.

Regarding your 'load', I wonder if the 29.2V 302AH rating is just too much for the PD43 PSU to handle as it is rated as 1400W, and I assume at 29.2V the max output of a dual setup would be   just under 96A? (1400Wx2 = 2800W, 2800W/29.2V = 95.89A) This of course is assuming that any load sharing setup(referred to above) is also correctly setup. This might be an OCP(Over Current Protection) kicking in, and not the OVP, in your case. With no current limiting circuit between the PSUs and the battery, I think the  battery could be pulling way more than the PSUs can supply.

Regarding OVP resistor, I've not yet been able to test OVP triggering at very high loads (near 100A) and that's why I made a note in my previous post regarding this. You might want to try a smaller value resistance such as the 4.3k that Hopper suggested for his 15.5V setup.

But I have a feeling that the load is just too large and the OCP is kicking in to prevent the PSU from a meltdown.

Look forward to hearing about your testing results! Cheers...

P.S.
One other thing came to mind, you might try checking the voltage of the battery before hooking up the PSUs, and making sure that the PSUs are set to a slightly higher voltage before connecting them to the battery and turning ON the PSUs, to prevent reverse flow of current. It might be necessary to connect a sufficiently high amp rated switch(in OFF state) on the negative side, before connecting the PSUs to the battery, and turn ON the PSUs first for like a minute or so to fully charge up all caps etc., with the switch(on the negative side) in OFF state, then after the initial minute or so of warmup, turn the switch ON. This would ensure forward current from the PSUs to the battery.

[Nik094]

The switch part at the end was my thought as it seems like a back current issue almost. I did have it charging at 79amps but it was hissing as one of the ovp mods solder did not take. It stopped entirely once I fixed it lol. I’m going to add a remote 600a relay switch on negative side today that I had sitting around from a golf cart build and try smaller resistors.

[Trurl]

I have a 100A rated "kill switch"(like those used on enthusiast racing "track cars") on hand for my future build. This allows me to have the cables connected to the car chassis' power terminals which eventually connect to the battery in the trunk, but have the negative to the PSU disconnected(switched OFF) say during PSU warmup, and during this time I can switch my modular volt meter to show the car's battery voltage status then the PSU's voltage setting and adjust as needed(to have the PSU's voltage slightly higher than the car's battery) before turning ON the "kill switch" which will be connected to the PSU's negative(ground) side.

While testing the OVP triggering (at the relatively low loads of 6~2 Ohms, resulting in about 2~7A loading) I noticed that triggering sometimes was different between tests done with say 20 seconds of warmup and 60 seconds of warmup. I could hear the fan speed changing (increasing) as well from around  20~30 seconds, and again around 45~60 seconds.

As I was at some points triggering very frequently in the higher voltage settings, I was able to notice that the PSU's OVP tends to be more trigger sensitive when it has had little warm up time. For example, with only 20seconds of warm up, the OVP could trigger at the very first tap of switching where as with a longer say 50~60 second warm up time, the OVP might trigger only after say the 3rd or 4th tapped switching ON, or in some cases not trigger when the PSU locks into "high current mode"(which is my own observation, not an official specification feature that I'm aware of) In this "mode" the fan speed his relatively high/very steady and no loading (whether steady holds or irregular fast tapping) will knock it off balance. This behavior I figure is associated with the PSU having charged up(or not) its main high voltage cap, as well as any other small caps that were drained in the previous OVP triggering event.

Although I will only need to use one of these PSUs in up to around 14.6 V / 50~90A range, I look forward to your experience with your setup and would appreciate your update here or in the YouTube video's comments section, particularly how if at all you incorporate the "load sharing" feature(using the PSU's pin 5, underside from edge) for your setup. Cheers~

[zheka64]

Hello. I'm curious about how to implement a current limit for these power supplies. Given that chargers based on this power supply are sold in Ukraine, it's clearly feasible. Attached are some examples of devices available on our local marketplace.

[Trurl]

If such units with "current limiting" modifications are not too over-priced, perhaps you could purchase one, open the enclosure to see how the seller achieved the "currrent limitiing", and share your findings here. I've yet to encounter any info on the matter online.

Other than the OVP mod resistances of interest that I've posted above, the voltage mod resistances in my case are as follows:

[ Resistor Values for 12.66V ~ 15.50V ]
* As tested without rounding. Used a mix of metal film resistors and a wire wound potentiometer on a breadboard.

12.66V  -  100.1k~103.5k
12.75V  -  80.1k
12.80V  -  71.0k
12.89V  -  59.83k
13.00V  -  50.63k
13.10V  -  44.20k
13.20V  -  39.09k
13.30V  -  35.09k
13.40V  -  31.82k
13.50V  -  29.23k
13.60V  -  26.92k
13.70V  -  24.99k
13.80V  -  23.36k
13.90V  -  21.95k
14.00V  -  20.64k
14.10V  -  19.46k
14.20V  -  18.43k
14.30V  -  17.48k
14.40V  -  16.62k
14.50V  -  15.87k
14.60V  -  15.20k
14.70V  -  14.54k
14.80V  -  14.01k
14.90V  -  13.46k
15.00V  -  12.91k~12.98k
15.10V  -  12.45k
15.20V  -  12.05k
15.30V  -  11.64k
15.40V  -  11.27k
15.50V  -  10.68k

Cheers~

[zheka64]

The price is quite overpriced compared to the price of the power supply unit itself. Different options cost $100-140. I would probably buy it if I hadn't already purchased a charger based on the HSTNS-PL11.

[zheka64]

Hi!

Am I understanding correctly that OVP and UVP follow the same logic? That is, by adding a resistor in addition to the OVP, the UVP also shifts? And what if instead of a resistor, a zener diode is used. Thus, in theory, it is possible to disable the OVP, while not changing the lower limit. The only thing is, I don't know at which point it is better to add it. At the point where the resistor was added, or between the two 5.11K resistors.

I examined how it's done in a Chinese charger made from the HSTNS-PL11. They cut the trace on the input to the voltage control logic and connected it directly to +12VSB using a wire. In other words, the voltage protection is completely disabled, which explains how it can be adjusted across the entire 0-15V+ range.

Kind regards,
Eugene

[Trurl]

Please note that I do not have a full understanding of this PSU's circuit design as there are no "official" schematics or info regarding the control software etc. in the public domain yet that I'm aware of. Hence my questions above regarding the control circuit's design type etc..

Regarding your mention of a "UVP"(I assume you mean "Under Voltage Protection"?), I did note on one section of my OVP trigger test chart(far right / bottom) that the combination of 12.66V and 15.00k OVP hack resistor results in "TAPO" (i.e. Triggers At Power ON), meaning that as soon as the PSU is powered ON, the OVP triggers so the PSU is essentially disabled. In this case, "UVP" does seem to kick in. I cannot explain in detail why, only that it happens.

I've not experimented with zener diodes, but the concept of voltage drop at the input to OpAmps(comparators) as a means to make the PSU's control circuit to think that the feedback voltage(whether it is in reference to the main output voltage or in reference to the OVP) is lower than it actually is for "normal" setting so you can boost the output, is indeed valid.  Therefore, in theory zener diodes could be used, but that would require pretesting with a variety of resistors for assessing the necessary voltage drops and finding zeners that would provide such precise drops, which are likely to be more tricky than just using resistors.

I do wonder if this "OVP hack" is truly OVP specific or if it is actually affecting both the OVP and OCP (Over Current Protection) as well, as my tests suggest that the set voltage and voltage drop due to various load sizes both affect the OVP triggering[i.e. at certain voltages, lighter loads/less current(& voltage drop) might not trigger OVP but heavier loads/more current(& voltage drop) tend to trigger OVP].

If you want to just disable the OVP so it never triggers, a resistance below 10k and closer to the 4.3k as suggested by the hack's original YouTube poster("Hopper" or "Nate"), should make it possible. As shown in my trigger tests (with relatively light loads - 2~7A, though not yet tested at 10~100A range) this seems to be the case.

Below, I've attached my version schematic(the one from the 1st post above) with circuit traces of interest - voltage hack & related feedback(marked in RED) and OVP hack & related feedback(marked in BLUE). Please note, I've tried to keep the markings to a minimum and along the most immediate connections in the central region of the circuit without marking every possible connections, just to give the viewer a starting point for analysis. For a "clean" version of the schematic refer to the first post of this thread.

[zheka64]

Hello!
Thank you for the ideas. I've already ordered such a power supply for myself and will be conducting experiments once it arrives. Ideally, I want to get a CC-CV power supply with the option to limit the current if needed.
The HSTNS-PL11 performs well and even delivers more than its rated 1200W, but it operates very loudly and heats up significantly. Therefore, I want to modify a more modern power supply.

Kind regards,
Eugene.

[kuko]

here is a reworked device, operating in the full range of voltages and currents
from 12 volts to 14.7 volts and current from 25 amperes to 100 amperes, with moderate fan noise

[Trurl]

Kuko, thanks for sharing your unit's photos.

It seems like it might be similar or the same product that zheka64 mentioned above with the selectable output current limit mod. The small PCB added on the air intake/chassis seems to be where the current limit would be set.

The small PCB attached to the large high voltage capacitor seems to be a separate(non-original/3rd-party) controller that's intercepting the feedback voltage(s), processing it, then causing modified signal voltages for desired output voltage, OVP, and OCP.

I look forward to any insights from the community regarding the mods in your photos.  Cheers~

[zheka64]

Hello.
Kuko, thank you for sharing the photos. May I ask a few questions? As far as I can see, there is no direct connection between the added boards? There are also two orange wires coming out of the board attached to the capacitor, which go behind the side board? Also, the marking of the added resistor is poorly visible, I understand it goes to ground near the blue wire, it seems like 51R.

Thank you again.

[Trurl]

In Kuko's photos, the top edge of the auxiliary PCB, the orange and blue wires seem to be related to the voltage hack.

The orange wire soldered onto the large"Solder Square" has the same effect as if it were soldered to the top side of capacitor(which is linked with the variable pot's upper left pin) related to the voltage hack in the video (i.e. the "Solder Square" and the top of the voltage hack cap are connected by an invisible/not obvious PCB trace). Soldering onto the "Solder Square" would be easier than onto the small cap so that is likely why it was done that way.

The blue wire soldered onto the ground pad(5th holed pad from left/variable potentiometer) is the same as the original voltage hack's grounding point in the video. The blue wire like the orange wire is connected to the voltage hack resistor selector jumper pins/PCB on the air intake/chassis.

The red wire (left of the orange wire) and the green wire just below the variable pot, are both connected to +12V(or hacked voltage) feedback voltage vias. Therefore, they are feedback intercepting points likely for purposes other than voltage hack(e.g. OVP, OCP mod).

The other wires (blue/green/green/red on the lower left /Primary Side) will take some more observation and info to determine their roles. Cheers~

Update regarding lower left Primary Side(far left) wires:
Blue (pin 53) : GND
Green (pin 52) : GND
Green (pin 50) : Connects to "A7"(3-pin, dual diode), 11:00 direction from pin 50.
Red (pin 39) : Connects to "V33DIO" (pins 9/45/47) of main processor UCD3138 on Primary Side of auxiliary PCB. Perhaps a 3.3VDC power source for the non-original/3rd-party PCB attached to the high voltage large cap.

*Refer to my attached schematic in the first/top post.

[Trurl]

here is a reworked device, operating in the full range of voltages and currents
from 12 volts to 14.7 volts and current from 25 amperes to 100 amperes, with moderate fan noise

Kuko, if possible, please let us know what the model number is for the chip/processor on the PCB attached to the large capacitor. It seems to be like "1BP2LM..." or "18P2LN..."?

Also, do the orange and red wires (from the central upper edge) also get connected to the PCB on the large cap?(It's not clear in the photos due to the silicone/adhesive). It's clear that they connect to the PCB with jumper pins, but not sure if they also connect with the PCB on the large capacitor.

If you could upload photos of the two additional small PCBs(one on the capacitor and one on the air intake/chassis) with the adhesive removed fully, that would be ideal.

Thanks...

[kuko]

yes , its 51R

[kuko]

also two orange wires ( at the large capacitor ) go on front-end pin ON

[Trurl]

also two orange wires ( at the large capacitor ) go on front-end pin ON

It seems then that the orange wire soldered on the "Solder Square" first connects to the PCB on the large cap, then continues onto connect with the other PCB on the front(air intake).

Again, it would be helpful to get a better view of the 2 small PCBs especially the main chip on the PCB on the large cap("1BP2LM..." or "18P2LN..."?).

Also, isn't it orange and red wires (not both orange) that actually connect to the front side PCB?

For anyone to be able to provide any suggestions or ideas about how your unit has been modified, we need clear photos of the small PCBs, without the adhesive, and clear indication of the wires, especially the orange /red wires and their connection (or not) on the small PCBs.

[zheka64]

Hi.
I managed to perform a voltage hack using 25.5kOhm resistors for a voltage boost to 13.9V and a 4.7kOhm resistor for OVP(?), but I used a different point, where there was soldered a 51R resistor in kuko's power supply. Actually, any resistance from 1kOhm to 20kOhm worked for me at 13.9V. I tested it using a variable resistor. This point is connected to the common pins of the 05C resistors. Without the second resistor, the power supply also worked, but it didn't start, for example, with a battery connected. Now it starts, but the problem with OCP activation remains instead of voltage and current throttling. So, it seems that it won't work as CC-CV and I don't think this can be done without an additional controller. For now, that's it.

[Trurl]

zheka64, very interesting!
I look forward to further observations and clarifications from you and anyone that can. Cheers~!

[MrEcho]

Hello, just want to add to this thread by adding a few issues I had whilst trying to make a power supply contained in a hammond 1455T2202BK enclosure. I was trying to make a high amperage PSU contained in as small an enclosure as I could. The HP server psu and the hammond enclosure fitted the bill. I also wanted a current/voltage meter to keep an eye on the PSU whilst it was being used, it also had to be adjustable in the 13 - 14.5v range. So I completed the mod to the OVP at the start of this thread and fitted a 10k resistor in series with a 50k ohm pot to allow a 12.39 - 15.10v range. All was going good. CNC'd a back plate so the PSU fitted to the enclosure securely and fitted a 50a anderson connector for output power. CNC'd the front panel to allow a current/voltage meter, 50k pot and a filtered 40mm fan intake. All was going good still. Fitted a 75mV 100a shunt internally with good isolation so it couldn't short. Then I had a bit of a dilema on how i was going to connect the positive and negative connections to the PSU. I decided that M6 brass bolts drilled through the tabs, then crimped cables was the best course of action. I did this and soldered brass washers to the underside on the tabs. then the fun began....

Assembled everything and got it ready to power on. Powered it on and found the voltage range had changed allowing it to go over 16v but not under 13.8v... a raised eyebrow followed. Then after much messing around with resistor values I noticed the PSU was warm, then noticed the fan wasn't turning or the rear green LED wasn't lit, but it was still outputting voltage. Thought I had maybe blown part of the control circuit so tested everything but I could find no components dead. Not one to be beaten and with much cursing and swearing (Im scottish  ), I have eventually traced the fault to me drilling through internal traces in one of the middle layers of the PCB (There are 2 internal layers to the board), I had drilled directly through 2 traces under the negative tab. I Set to it with a dremel and a very small burr bit this evening, exposing the middle layer traces until I could continuity trace each one running under the tabs. Once I found the 2 traces, I soldered these directly to the Negative terminal and the PSU is back up and working. Much to my surprise.

So a warning to anyone... If you want to bolt cables through the Tabs of these PSU's, it is possible, but you will cause yourself a few headaches.

[Trurl]

Thanks for that! So glad nothin's dropped dead, especially you! <- alive and laughin' Scottish dude.

I'd considered drilling holes on the output lands a while back, but noticed the inner layer traces' silhouettes when viewed upon light, under the output lands, and encountered some advice* that such inner traces may not have the same functions as the outer lands.
*Drilling Holes In Server PSU Output Tabs vs C-Clamp Binding Posts(?)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/drilling-holes-in-server-psu-output-tabs-vs-c-clamp-binding-posts/

Being the paranoid freaker I am, I considered all kinds of things until I whipped out some scrap copper sheet metal I had in my tool box and made some terminals that "bite" onto both the upper and lower lands of the output. I realized soldering these terminals may require some careful heating so inquired on the following thread:
"Best Way To Solder Copper Terminals Onto PSU Output Tabs?"
 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/best-way-to-solder-copper-terminals-onto-psu-output-tabs/

I've got some better flux than I'd been using, and will get to soldering on the terminals when I find some time, and will update in the thread above. Cheers~

[MrEcho]

I just updated my reply with photos of the finished PSU and changed some of the content. It was actually the negative traces i drilled through.

[zheka64]

Hi.

I finally bought myself this modified PSU and I think I figured out how it's made on this board with jumpers.
It's a feedback circuit, so it won't work with just resistors. As far as I understand, it takes +12V from two points, one point to the shunt, the other after. It goes through the current sensing amplifier INA180A4 and feeds the output to the non-inverting input of the operational amplifier LM321. +5V is applied to the inverting input through a voltage divider (the value is set by a jumper). The output through a diode is fed to the same place where the voltage is set. So, the higher the current, the higher the voltage at the output of the LM321, and accordingly, the voltage and current at the output of the PSU will decrease, and vice versa.

Schematic of first PCB:


The function of the other board on the large capacitor is still not entirely clear. It has a 4-channel operational amplifier LM324 and an optocoupler for power control, with wires from it going to the power-on pins. This board might also be responsible for reducing the fan speed. Additionally, the device turns on and off in an unusual way, as if it's going through a protection trigger (there's an audible beep).

Regards.

[Xballe]

Hi All
First a question: Did you settle on a final value of resistance (10.50k ~ 10.60k) for the OVP ?
If I understand it correct, the OVP resistance (10.50k ~ 10.60k) should work for all voltages ( 12.66V - 100.1k~103.5k    to    15.50V - 10.68k ) right ?

Next: I'm in the process of building a 24 Volt power supply, two HSTNS-PD43 in series. Therefore one of them needs to be floated (low voltage ground disconnected from cage ground)
Its pretty easy to float the HSTNS-PD43, you don't even have to open the PSU to do it (as I did, to find out how simple it is)

First you have to bend out the little tab (red circle) 45 deg. should do it, then remove the screw (green circle) from the bottom, closest to the tab you just bent out.
Now the PCB should be able to move a little up and down at that end.







Now you need a M3 plastic/nylon bolt (approx. 1 – 1,5mm longer than original screw) and an isolating washer, I used 0,4mm mylar for the job. It needs to be a thin and sturdy, isolating material.
You need a tight fitting hole around the M3 bolt, due to a small protrusion around the hole on the standoff on the PCB.




The most tricky part is to get the washer in place between the case and PCB, but when its in position put the nylon bolt in and tighten, DONE !
Your PSU is now floated and can be used as the second, third.... or how many you want to stack in your final setup.

Now, a little insight as to why the washer has to be tight fitting and sturdy.
First when I took the PSU apart I expected I needed to isolate the PCB in 3 places (red rings in pic) but actually the PCB is only grounded in one spot (yellow rings)




The little protrusion I mentioned earlier is only 0,7mm high and 4mm in diameter with a M3 hole in the middle, that leaves us with a 0,5mm wide protrusion that the isolating washer has to "ride on" and stay on, hence the tight fit mentioned.







Hope this makes it a little easier if you have to float your HSTNS-PD43 

[Trurl]

Very cool Xballe! Thanks for sharing the detailed photos and pointers!

For now I'm leaning towards 10.50k resistance for the OVP (I've yet to test the PSU at high amperage*). But I would not be surprised if the resistance may need to be lowered a bit for those intending to use the PSU mostly for very high loads(say 50~100A) & voltage settings(say 15.0~15.5V) to keep the OVP from kicking in. Note that I mentioned in the OVP triggering test results post that for higher amp loads the OVP in some cases triggered even though at low amp loads it did not (under the same resistance & voltage setting).
*I'm planning on setting up a dummy load using relatively heavy gauge nichrome wire for testing at high amps. But I recently got way distracted when I found on the street a very nice Samsung fridge compressor(from a drinks refrigerator) and an empty mint condition refrigerant tank(pink for R410A = high pressure rating) among throw away items from a wedding hall business that dropped dead (Note: I'm sure you can imagine, this sort of find of "precious" oddball items(with no dings/rust or anything), in one location just hangin' out on the street, is incredibly rare, so I had to grab them... BAM!). Hence, I've been distracted into "DIY silent compressor / vacuum pump in one" design mode (fun times).  Cheers~

[stanislav]

Hi Zheka,

I bought a similar unit back in July and looked inside to understand how I can modify them myself. The seller told me that the new mod is coming where voltage and current can be regulated so my version is at fixed 14.6V and 25/50/75/100A jumpers.

So here's a circuit of the added pcba in my version. Two modification that I've made:
- added a multiplexer instead of the jumpers to manage current programmatically but the idea is that the jumpers regulate voltage coming into the op amp
- In the original mod a resistor of 4.3k was replaced with R1 and R5 on my circuit (the multiplexer adds another 300Ohm so I wanted it to be roughly the same)

Connections:
- SIG1 - A9
- SIG2 - upper node of 05C resistor at B9
- SIG3 - D5 (MC3-1)

This is from my memory but I can double check it if anyone needs it.

Some observations
1. No need to tune the potentiometer, the hack provides around 14.6V
2. There are different revisions of the unit:
- 0B(08F) - what I've gotten from the seller
- 0A(03F) - an older version with no hole for SIG3 but it's still possible to hack it by using U3A op amp output

So far the mod works well for me and I've managed to tune a PSU to get the desired output.

Here's the challenge that I don't know how to address and maybe someone can help me here. When PSU is connected to a battery, the circuit still works and consumes around 1.3W with fans barely running. Any ideas what could be done in order to prevent power consumption? Note that PSKILL, PSON pins are disconnected from GND. Appreciate any help.

Also, guys, if you have a newer version, could you check if PSU with turned off PSON/KILL pins and no AC is still running when voltage presents?

P.S. Appreciate all the above information. It's probably the only place with details for those units.

[zheka64]

Hi Stanislav,

Thanks for sharing your version of the attached PCB schematic. Mine PSU revision is 0B(10F), but it's made as I described earlier. It's likely they decided to unify the schematic so that it's the same for both revisions.

Regarding the fan working when the device is turned off and battery consumption - it's still the same. By the way, do you have a second board on the large capacitor? And do you have any thoughts on what it does besides power on control?

Regards.

[stanislav]

Thank you for checking how the fan works!

In my version there's no second pcba and I'm only guessing here. As one of two units I bought didn't work, the seller "suggested" that I've burnt it via a wrong polarity connection that wasn't the case. Turned out it was an original manufacturer problem. A week later the seller mentioned that these PSU also die from low AC voltage, something like 200-205V so given it's on the power side, it could be related to that.

[AtlanticSurfer]

Hi guys!  My aim is to get a PSU for automotive use and I’ve managed to perform the voltage mod on one of these PD43s.  Next up was to make an enclosure for it and was hoping to be able to use one those cheap Aliexpress VA meters.  I was hoping to avoid the negatives of including a big shunt and had read that the common slot supplies had an analogue current pin so I set about probing the PD43 to see if I could one.  I’ll attach the results plot below.  I did find a pin where the voltage between it and ground increased proportionally (to an extent) with load current but I’ a bit baffled that there’s a small negative voltage at zero load.  I had hoped to to use a voltage divider to emulate a 75mA shunt but I can’t think how to do that if there is a negative component.

Has anybody managed to get an analogue current measurement from the PD43 or that can suggest what I’m doing wrong?  I did double check that no load voltage and measured -0.089v instead of the original value of -0.078v.

[Xballe]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005594307828.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.order_detail_item.4.1b25f19cQAHSvU

I ordered one of these from Ali to try and avoid the shunt as well. Haven't seen it yet so can't comment on how it works or precision

[AtlanticSurfer]

Thanks Xballe, that certainly looks like an option.  I kept looking past any ammeters with hall sensors as I associated them (wrongly) with AC current.  I'm not concerned about precision really, just want to have an indication but I am concerned about expense and that sensor is more expensive than the PSU was.  I wonder if it's possible (perhaps using an alkaline cell and a trim pot) to lift the shunt voltage above ground?

I s your intended use also an automotive PSU?

[Trurl]

... I'm not concerned about precision really, just want to have an indication but I am concerned about expense and that sensor is more expensive than the PSU was.  I wonder if it's possible (perhaps using an alkaline cell and a trim pot) to lift the shunt voltage above ground?

I s your intended use also an automotive PSU?

You may want to consider a panel voltmeter with an ICL7107 chip as it has a "differential input" that can "zero" out the non-zero current sense voltage in unloaded state, and convert this voltmeter into an "ammeter".

In my case, I get like +26mV@0A offset voltage from the current sense voltage(CSV) - from that same first pin on the underside edge. The ICL7107 based voltmeter's input will make this offset voltage zero at its differential input. And as the PD43's current sense output voltage is about 25mV/A you'd need to set the voltage dividers along the input side accordingly to accommodate this. If interested, you can read about my experiences figuring this out in the following threads (some may not directly be related to your specific interests but some potential pitfalls along the way could be similar and useful to know about in advance):

1. ICL7107 - Is VRef Greater than 1V Possible?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/icl7107-is-vref-greater-than-1v-possible/

2. How To Make Non-Zero Initial Current Sense Voltage Zero?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/how-to-make-non-zero-initial-current-sense-voltage-zero/

3. ICL7107 Volt Meter Hacked To An Ammeter With 2.5V Ref And In Lo Offset
* For some reason(after I edited the thread's title) clicking the link for this thread below is not working (just links to the 'Beginners' board), BUT...
'Copy/Pasting' the link below, excluding the brackets ("[...]")at the ends, into another browser window's directory input & hitting 'enter' opens the thread fine.
[ www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/icl7107-volt-meter-hacked-to-an-ammeter-w-2-5v-ref-in-lo-offset-(solved)!/msg5532997/#msg5532997 ]

4. Current Sense Output Disrupting Ammeter Powered With Most SMPS But Not All(? ? ?)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/current-sense-output-disrupting-ammeter-powered-with-most-smps-but-not-all()/

5. Safe & Simple Way To Convert Floating Wall Wart To Grounded?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/safe-simple-way-to-convert-floating-wall-wart-to-grounded/msg5541505/#msg5541505

[AtlanticSurfer]

Thanks Trurl, seems you've already beaten a path down this route, I'll see if I can follow it. 

[Trurl]

If you are getting a negative current sense voltage(CSV), and it eventually becomes positive with loading, then the same voltage to this initial negative CSV (after it has settled with the PSU warmed up) needs to be applied to the "In Lo"(- input) of an ICL7107 based volt meter's differential input, while the CSV output from the PSU would be connected to the "In Hi"(+ input) of the meter's inputs.

If all goes as expected, the ICL7107 should process this negative "In Lo" voltage as the "zero" level(negating the negative offset), so that the CSV is "counted" from actual loaded output.

If you have not fiddled with an ICL7107 or a panel meter based on it, it may take some time and effort to get familiar with its peculiarities, but its datasheets are VERY informative(and it's much "simpler" to fiddle with than most modern chips with fancy multiplexing etc. such as those tiny V/A meter combo doodads). I learned SO much. And in my suggested threads above, I spill all the beans... 

[AtlanticSurfer]

Thanks again Trurl, I’ve read through all the threads you linked to (and more) and I’m sure if a chose to go down the ICL7101 route that your thorough documentation would make it much easier for me to get a result but the learning curve seems too long and too steep for me at the moment.

It occurred to me that I might be able to use the atmega32u4 MCU’s that I have in my drawer.  They have six analogue input pins that can read voltage down to -0.5V and I believe that a differential measurement may be as simple as subtracting one pins voltage from another’s in code.  Presumably that measurement can be used to output a voltage to the cheapo meter in place of a shunt.  After reading those threads today I think I’d power the MCU and the meter by battery to keep things simpler.   I’ll have a dabble at that.  The MCU route would leave the door open for controlling digital potentiometers for voltage adjustment and from there remote sensing.

[Trurl]

You obviously have more sophisticated means at your disposal. It'd be a treat to read about your experience. When your solution gets up and running, please do brag at will with fancy photos and all, right here in this thread for all to be blown away. Cheers~

[Gorbatiuk]

Hi.

I finally bought myself this modified PSU and I think I figured out how it's made on this board with jumpers.
It's a feedback circuit, so it won't work with just resistors. As far as I understand, it takes +12V from two points, one point to the shunt, the other after. It goes through the current sensing amplifier INA180A4 and feeds the output to the non-inverting input of the operational amplifier LM321. +5V is applied to the inverting input through a voltage divider (the value is set by a jumper). The output through a diode is fed to the same place where the voltage is set. So, the higher the current, the higher the voltage at the output of the LM321, and accordingly, the voltage and current at the output of the PSU will decrease, and vice versa.

Schematic of first PCB:
(Attachment Link)

The function of the other board on the large capacitor is still not entirely clear. It has a 4-channel operational amplifier LM324 and an optocoupler for power control, with wires from it going to the power-on pins. This board might also be responsible for reducing the fan speed. Additionally, the device turns on and off in an unusual way, as if it's going through a protection trigger (there's an audible beep).

Regards.

Hello, Evgeniy.
Could you please tell me where the OVP resistor is connected in the unit you bought and what is its rating? Thanks in advance.

[zheka64]

Hello,
I didn't look inside mine because it was all taped up and I didn't want to mess with it. In my other PSU, I soldered a resistor like in the picture.


There's also a resistor there, probably for undervoltage protection. It's normally a 20kOhm resistor, which sets the cutoff at about 11.8V. The modified PSU I bought had a 10kOhm resistor, which they say sets it to 7.5V. I soldered a 100kOhm resistor over the existing one 20kOhm in my second PSU, giving a total of approximately 17kOhm and a calculated cutoff of 10.4V.

[Trurl]

zheka64, were you able to notice any differences/advantages to placing the 4.7k OVP hack resistor at the location you indicated above? I can tell it would be a bit easier(more spacious) than the original location(very tight space) as shown in Hopper's video, but I'm wondering how this other location for the OVP resistor affects the PD43's performance behavior(if at all). Perhaps a whole different set of values for OVP would have to be assessed?

Also, please clarify how "a 100kOhm resistor over the existing one"(10k), gives "a total of 17kOhm". Thanks...

[zheka64]

Hello
Trurl, the device works normally; OVP does not trigger in the range of 12.3V to 14.6V, and I haven't checked above that. A 100kΩ resistor in parallel with the factory-installed 20kΩ resistor results in 17kΩ or 16.667Ω, to be more precise. I updated my previous post to make it clearer.

[AtlanticSurfer]

trying to make a power supply contained in a hammond 1455T2202BK enclosure.

Nice job enclosing the unit!  My enclosures are due to arrive at the end of the week and I was wondering if you might be able and willing to share the cut-out dimensions for the the endplate? 

[Trurl]

For anyone intending to try the "alternate" OVP placement location, as demonstrated by zheka64 in the altered version available in Ukraine(with added PCBs & current limiting etc.), please note that this "alternate" OVP resistor location affects the voltages on either side of resistor "05C(2)", as marked in my schematic, slightly differently - according to a simplified simulation I performed in Proteus software [i.e. the voltage at 05C(2) resistor's lower solder point - the original OVP hack point - and the upper solder point, will be different when the OVP resistor is placed on the "alternate" location] so it is likely that my uploaded chart with OVP trigger characteristics and its resistor values will not transfer over to this "alternate" OVP placement(i.e. this "alternate" OVP placement location will have its own slightly different OVP trigger characteristics and associated resistor values - particularly without any of the Ukrainian version's additional PCB addons & wiring).

[AtlanticSurfer]

For anyone intending to try the "alternate" OVP placement location, ...

I tried using the alternate OVP point but ripped the pad off the board when tidying the lead - it's very fragile.  If trying it again I'd attach to the upper solder point of the 05C(2) resistor since it has continuity with the alternate point but is more robust.

The unit seems to function okay without the pad after reverting to the original point.