Ive never seen a circuit board made like this

[larrybl]

Skip to 13:60

[Nominal Animal]

I've watched Nik and Richard from episode 3, and I must say, I've never seen anyone stuff Toyota Celica GT-4 motor and gearbox into a Mini, either.

That said, as Nik says, the print-tracks-with-solder contraption they made to their mini CNC mill was mostly a replacement for breadboards, to allow them to do iterative development without weeks in between PCB iterations.  You could ask why not etch their own boards, or wirewrap it instead, but I suspect the answer to those would be "we're guys with hammers and grinders, not angry pixie wranglers!"

[Analog Kid]

PSB (printed solder board)?
Does the solder have to be RoHS? (ugh)
Thanks but no thanks.

[tooki]

Skip to 13:60

You sure about that timestamp? I don’t know how to set YouTube to non-sexagesimal time.


As for that method — it’s… clever, I guess? I wouldn’t trust it to last 5 minutes in the vibration of a car, though!

[coppice]

They could have laid down a thin layer of UV activated epoxy on the FR4, then used the CNC to lay thin copper wires into the goo. When all the wires were nicely in place, they could have used a UV lamp to cure the epoxy. A good old proven 1970s prototyping technique for PCBs, that small cheap modern CNCs have made easy and accessible.

[SiliconWizard]

But that makes people talk and with the views they can surely order hundreds of proper PCBs with express options.

[themadhippy]

They could have laid down a thin layer of UV activated epoxy on the FR4, then used the CNC to lay thin copper wires into the goo. When all the wires were nicely in place, they could have used a UV lamp to cure the epoxy.

And a hammer and chisel to make modifications.

[SiliconWizard]

Also they just dispense molten solder as I understand? Usual solder is fine for solder joints but it has relatively poor conductivity, so making all your traces with it, ugh.
(Tin - Sn - has about 6 times lower conductivity than copper. Lead-free solder typically has some amount of Cu and Ag as well, but in pretty low percentage for it to really improve conductivity.)
Of course, if your circuits don't draw significant current, or have relatively short traces, that would be ok.

[mendip_discovery]

Nik makes a damned good bracket or two. I have been watching this for a few years and what they have done is far beyond my fabrication skills.

Their idea of CAD is biodegradable.

It's been a months since the last update so I suspect this has taken a long time to make. Will be interesting how the get on with the dial faces.

[langwadt]

Nik makes a damned good bracket or two. I have been watching this for a few years and what they have done is far beyond my fabrication skills.

Their idea of CAD is biodegradable.

It's been a months since the last update so I suspect this has taken a long time to make. Will be interesting how the get on with the dial faces.

some of the PCB printing nonsense they showed back in February, and said they had spent 18 months perfecting it, what a monumental waste of time   

I've followed the binky series since the beginning and much of it has been good, but this one is just pointless.

it is a amazing that they have nearly 3700 patreon at at least $2, for a short post maybe every few months and getting to see a video 2 days early every year or two..

[jpanhalt]

@Analog Kid
Jennifer Lewis published a modified Tollens reagent in 2013 (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja209267c) for electrical circuits  The nanoparticles of silver are presumably ROHS compliant and can be deposited at relatively high thicknesses compared to the original Tollens.  (Tollens was used to silver mirrors.)  It is supposedly solderable and sticks to plastic, unlike solder.  I have not followed progress with that product, but suspect it may be used commercially today.

I bought the reagents to make it at the time and have summarized the recipe before ACS (JACS) required payment/subscription for access (attached).

[coromonadalix]

i would be afraid for the long term solidity of this pcb, normally you rely on a copper layer 1st,  mechanicals constraints etc ... thermals  etc ...   i would never use this method

solder may crack ..

[KE5FX]

@Analog Kid
Jennifer Lewis published a modified Tollens reagent in 2013 (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja209267c) for electrical circuits  The nanoparticles of silver are presumably ROHS compliant and can be deposited at relatively high thicknesses compared to the original Tollens.  (Tollens was used to silver mirrors.)  It is supposedly solderable and sticks to plastic, unlike solder.  I have not followed progress with that product, but suspect it may be used commercially today.

I bought the reagents to make it at the time and have summarized the recipe before ACS (JACS) required payment/subscription for access (attached).

Interesting, that might be good for cavities.  Did you actually make some?

[Nominal Animal]

Like Nik said, it's not for use, it's a prototyping tool.

These guys have thus far avoided anything and everything electronic; in their own words, only did wiring.  They're not angry pixie wranglers, they've only done mechanical stuff thus far.

We know many better manufacturing/prototyping methods to achieve their stated goals (mainly iterative development).  They didn't, and went down a funny rabbit hole instead, emerging all soiled and wonky.

But, hell, the entire idea of Binky is wonky.  Look at the entire project: it's utterly mad/stupid/weird/funny from the get go!

If I were to interview Nik and Richard, I'd ask whether they used developing their track printing gadget as a funny excuse (or alternatively their own personal way) to get into electronics and PCB design, because as horrible as the results are (except if you compare it to breadboarding), it is perfectly in line with what these guys do as their hobby.

So, I would suggest stopping even comparing it to "making circuit boards", and instead treat it as a wonky/funny way of prototyping.

[jpanhalt]

Interesting, that might be good for cavities.  Did you actually make some?

I have not made the Lewis reagent per se.  Tollens yes.  We used to do it as a practical joke on other students.  For example, after some students went home, we would silver coat the inside of a round bottom flask for them.  It is quite hard to remove without resorting to nitric acid.  The key to Lewis is formaldehyde rather than a reducing sugar (e.g., glucose) is used.  That leaves a volatile product that is easily removed at moderate temperature.

[RoGeorge]

[coppice]

They could have laid down a thin layer of UV activated epoxy on the FR4, then used the CNC to lay thin copper wires into the goo. When all the wires were nicely in place, they could have used a UV lamp to cure the epoxy.

And a hammer and chisel to make modifications.

I've seen someone actually do that when they wanted to put slots in a PCB to reduce the surface leakage from one area to another. It produced a very artisan looking result.

[langwadt]

But, hell, the entire idea of Binky is wonky.  Look at the entire project: it's utterly mad/stupid/weird/funny from the get go!

but with everything else binky the mad/stupid/weird/funny part was that it was all made better, stronger, nicer, that needed
this just seemed like a massive waste of time for an inferior result

[Nominal Animal]

But, hell, the entire idea of Binky is wonky.  Look at the entire project: it's utterly mad/stupid/weird/funny from the get go!

but with everything else binky the mad/stupid/weird/funny part was that it was all made better, stronger, nicer, that needed
this just seemed like a massive waste of time for an inferior result

My point is, it is not a result; it's just one more temporary tool they did.  When they know the design will work, they will have proper PCB's made.

I don't like it either, mind you; it's just not skookum enough even for testing for me.  This should have been a Howie Did It -episode, I think; but maybe they just have zero experience in electronics (other than wiring and fuses and using ECUs and such), and did not know or even know how to check for any better techniques.

[Analog Kid]

I don't like it either, mind you; it's just not skookum enough even for testing for me.

Many points to you for using a Chinook jargon word there. (Northwestern Native American lingua franca that was understood by many tribes as well as white settlers and traders back in the day.)

[SiliconWizard]

But, hell, the entire idea of Binky is wonky.  Look at the entire project: it's utterly mad/stupid/weird/funny from the get go!

but with everything else binky the mad/stupid/weird/funny part was that it was all made better, stronger, nicer, that needed
this just seemed like a massive waste of time for an inferior result

Well that's all for the views. If they could use frozen pee and get double the views, they would probably too.
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if they just used "proper" methods, the videos would be half the length and would probably look boring to most.

[langwadt]

But, hell, the entire idea of Binky is wonky.  Look at the entire project: it's utterly mad/stupid/weird/funny from the get go!

but with everything else binky the mad/stupid/weird/funny part was that it was all made better, stronger, nicer, that needed
this just seemed like a massive waste of time for an inferior result

Well that's all for the views. If they could use frozen pee and get double the views, they would probably too.
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if they just used "proper" methods, the videos would be half the length and would probably look boring to most.

seems it's been 2 years in the making

[langwadt]

I don't like it either, mind you; it's just not skookum enough even for testing for me.

Many points to you for using a Chinook jargon word there. (Northwestern Native American lingua franca that was understood by many tribes as well as white settlers and traders back in the day.)

it was popularized years ago by https://www.youtube.com/@arduinoversusevil2025

[Nominal Animal]

But, hell, the entire idea of Binky is wonky.  Look at the entire project: it's utterly mad/stupid/weird/funny from the get go!

but with everything else binky the mad/stupid/weird/funny part was that it was all made better, stronger, nicer, that needed
this just seemed like a massive waste of time for an inferior result

Well that's all for the views. If they could use frozen pee and get double the views, they would probably too.
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if they just used "proper" methods, the videos would be half the length and would probably look boring to most.

You obviously haven't watched the videos, nor observed the sparse schedule they post new videos.  Really, what they are doing, is very much in line how they approach stuff, starting from the Mini rotisserie they initially created from tubing, threaded rod, and wiper motors a decade ago.

Motorsports is what they do, not electronics (nor even youtube videos).  What they do, just happens to resonate with some people, myself included.  You're letting a single video and your expectations color your preconceptions, and it is leading you quite astray.  What I am saying, is that their ineptitude here is not deliberate; it is natural, and very much in line how they've done things before in that project (and in Escargot).

It is not about the result.  It is about the doing, in a manner that satisfies their own hobby needs.  The printed tracks on FR4 is just a prototyping method they developed, and are quite proud of.  I don't like it at all, and it is pretty silly in my opinion, but when you consider their background and how they've tried to solve issues thus far, it is perfectly in character: not fan service, just what these guys really did.  Inept? Definitely yes.

[T3sl4co1l]

I'm concerned with the bonding to the substrate, and how well those eyelets get soldered.  A good wet (fluxed) joint, heated somewhat over liquidus, will suck in and break shorts around it.  They might (if perhaps not must) be getting cold or dirty joints there -- solder glopped on, leads poorly wetted, dirt not pushed out of joints.

But they don't document the process in detail here, intentionally I'm sure (partly in case there's information they want to protect, but if nothing else, it's boring and not germane to an already long video, that'll take even more editing, and etc...), and it may be that they have some mitigations for those.  For example, pretinning the rivets helps with that; clean, brand new component leads are easier to tin; and they might've used lead-free for the traces, versus leaded for the pads, and the difference in MP makes it a bit easier to manage.  They might've even used Bi or In based extra-low-melting solder for the joints, dunno.  They did mention an adhesive undercoat, which helps with that, but an epoxy overcoat would double up by making proper tunnels for the solder -- once everything is settled in place, that is.

Conductivity and all that, I have absolutely no problem with.  Copper is way more conductive than needed for most purposes.  Signal traces, small currents -- everything here is just doing lamps and sensors, no wiring is routed across it, voltage drop doesn't matter (or at least not very much), and the cross section is much much thicker than you get on a PCB.

Doing it this way, versus a confusing tangle of wires, forces neatness in design, and keeps the profile low -- a bad obsession, perhaps, but I...do I really have to say anything more?

You can certainly do as good a job with wirewrap wire soldered point to point, taped down from time to time, but that's more pixie-wrangler-chic than they are used to.  They may well have other purposes in mind for having developed the solder printing process -- or just wanted to play with something else for a few months and see if they can do it.  It's not like the final product (the car) is something they're selling, to a client with expectations on quality and completion date; they can take all the time they want, for it or side projects, for professional development (maybe the proto process is something they'll reuse for future projects, not necessarily anything that makes it to YT), take your pick.

Tim