Author Topic: Making panel meters for my psu. Any suggestions ?  (Read 7058 times)

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Offline Dr.Krieger

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Re: Making panel meters for my psu. Any suggestions ?
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2022, 02:54:04 am »
I am not sure about the accuracy of Chinese ICL7107 Meter kits (https://www.ebay.com/itm/402533876034), for that price the chip must be a Chinese knock-off and not the real thing...
Don't have one to test though, could be accurate enough and gabri.peic said the 3-digits are enough if accurate (don't need 1mV accuracy), has someone bought a cheap kit like that?

There are many models of 7 segments panel meters on Aliexpress, cheaper than one can build.  Various colors and segment sizes, most of them with 4 digits.  Some are single indicator, some are grouped in 2-3 lines for V, A, W.  They usually have a trimmer to calibrate them.

If you can trust the specifications; it is not trivial to achieve 4 digit performance.

...

Yea, a $10 7-digit Ali/eBay voltmeter is not the same with a $$$ bench Keithley 7-digit voltmeter, obviously...
That is why i said that those X-digit cheap meters are nice but trust only a couple of decimals points and ignore the rest.


some Panels available on Ali Express

Claiming to be OLED Displays
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002950979761.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.24.1ef27dc2bJF4Ej&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.281175.0&scm_id=1007.40050.281175.0&scm-url=1007.40050.281175.0&pvid=46f64d2b-8ad2-4fb9-b72b-409d46a031d2&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:46f64d2b-8ad2-4fb9-b72b-409d46a031d2,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238113%231998&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000022928175654%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21PKR%21%211133.5%21%21%21%21%21%40210312ef16526125808314290ecf5c%2112000022928175654%21rec

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33019908970.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.16.7eb657a9zTrdgX&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.281175.0&scm_id=1007.40050.281175.0&scm-url=1007.40050.281175.0&pvid=e226f384-4815-40ba-903b-c49ec2ebdc76&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:e226f384-4815-40ba-903b-c49ec2ebdc76,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238113%231998&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2267203017554%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21PKR%21%211139.29%21%21%21%21%21%40210312ef16526126331334775ecf5c%2167203017554%21rec

4 1/2 Voltage Meter display
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32856546181.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.c1a33c95A7Yheh&algo_pvid=b86ad202-d697-4cec-a189-f66fea443ba0&algo_exp_id=b86ad202-d697-4cec-a189-f66fea443ba0-12&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2265256055499%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21PKR%21%211542.18%21%21%21%21%21%402101e9d016526123633072192ee7a4%2165256055499%21sea

The first two have incredibly small screens, its ok for a handheld toy or something but not for a Bench PSU, too small. I have one of those and can take side-by-side pics with other LED panel meters.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 03:03:14 am by Dr.Krieger »
 

Offline Capernicus

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Re: Making panel meters for my psu. Any suggestions ?
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2022, 03:01:08 am »
Why bother learning programming at all?    I dont think if u can just tap the position with the multimetre directly on the power supply circuit you even need any microcontroller at all for this, just chuck the metre where the multimetre was.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Making panel meters for my psu. Any suggestions ?
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2022, 04:12:00 am »
There are many models of 7 segments panel meters on Aliexpress, cheaper than one can build.  Various colors and segment sizes, most of them with 4 digits.  Some are single indicator, some are grouped in 2-3 lines for V, A, W.  They usually have a trimmer to calibrate them.

If you can trust the specifications; it is not trivial to achieve 4 digit performance.

Yea, a $10 7-digit Ali/eBay voltmeter is not the same with a $$$ bench Keithley 7-digit voltmeter, obviously...
That is why i said that those X-digit cheap meters are nice but trust only a couple of decimals points and ignore the rest.

It is not even that.  I really mean that 4 digit performance is not trivial, especially if cost must be kept low.

Even assuming a perfect ADC, any signal conditioning, like an input buffer to provide a high impedance input, is not trivial.  1 part in 10,000 requires 80dB of common mode rejection to keep the error less than 1 count, but that is a difficult specification to meet for the JFET or especially CMOS input amplifier needed for a high impedance input.  (1) The CMOS ICL7135 and its predecessors were designed very cleverly to null the common mode error of their horrid CMOS input buffer as part of their automatic zero cycle.  Other contemporary ADCs which did not do this had to use a very expensive external precision JFET amplifier instead.

The amazing part is that there are relatively simple discrete ADC designs from that era that manage it, but they are so difficult to understand that even then an integrated part was preferred.  Today if I was designing something from scratch, I would use one of the many integrated delta-sigma ADCs (2) (3) with a microcontroller to directly drive a multiplexed display, although for a high impedance input this would still require great care of the input circuitry.  Duplicating the performance of the ICL7135 is still not easy.

(1) There are some amazing (non-chopper) parts now that handily meet this requirement, but the best option for a long time was a discrete design, a LM308 or LM11, or later the LT1008/LT1012 bipolar precision low input bias current operational amplifier.  Analog Devices, PMI, and Burr-Brown had suitable precision JFET parts if you could afford them.

(2) The LTC1043 switched capacitor building block could also be used as part of a discrete ADC to achieve this level of performance.

(3) There are sampling ADCs with the needed precision now, however they would require external processing to remove 50/60 Hz line noise.  Instrumentation delta-sigma converters can be configured to do this internally.
 

Online coromonadalix

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Re: Making panel meters for my psu. Any suggestions ?
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2022, 05:00:48 pm »
For around 20-25$ usd  for the icl7135 at  4 1/2 digits, you can't go wrong with them, at 199.99 volts  you still have 2 digits after the decimal ...

Was never satisfied with the ones based on a mcu


And used in a power supply (0-80vdc 0-8 amps), i added (lots of empty space) two floating 5vdc supplies just to be sure to have a non common ground,  1 for the voltage and 1 for the current, you have lots of resolution to play with, i replaced 2x needle meters loll


And after a few years, they are rock solid and still very precise

Dont go the hard way designing a pcb, buying parts  etc ... not worth the price / time lost / etc...   my 2 cents
 

Offline Zoli

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Re: Making panel meters for my psu. Any suggestions ?
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2022, 05:36:36 pm »
For around 20-25$ usd  for the icl7135 at  4 1/2 digits, you can't go wrong with them, at 199.99 volts  you still have 2 digits after the decimal ...

Was never satisfied with the ones based on a mcu


And used in a power supply (0-80vdc 0-8 amps), i added (lots of empty space) two floating 5vdc supplies just to be sure to have a non common ground,  1 for the voltage and 1 for the current, you have lots of resolution to play with, i replaced 2x needle meters loll


And after a few years, they are rock solid and still very precise

Dont go the hard way designing a pcb, buying parts  etc ... not worth the price / time lost / etc...   my 2 cents
2nd source 7135 is around 2CAD: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Analog-To-Digital-Converters-ADCs_XINLUDA-XL7135CD_C513493.html. Calsheet is too big to attach(22MB), but the store page has direct link; drop me a PM if you want a test board(I have 4 left).
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Making panel meters for my psu. Any suggestions ?
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2022, 01:44:44 pm »
Are these cheap ADCs fast and cheap enough to make low cost SDRs for receiving HF shortwave?

I am impressed by some cheap eBay meters, although some are worst than others.
One of them had smaller LEDs and was losing a digit when measuring less than 10V, but then again i wouldn't trust the last digits of those meters. The good thing is that you get a fairly accurate X.XX reading (ignore the rest) and you don;t get that with the cheaper $1 3-digit voltmeters.

I am not sure about the actual listings and sellers because its been 4-5 years since i bought mine, but here are the ones i find today:

0.36" that loses one digit <10V:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/132474589055

0.56" that is fairly accurate:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274758652402

Some of those eBay meters have (or had at least) 18bit ADC;s in them according to this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/43-000-count-voltmeter-from-10-bit-adc-how/
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 


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