Author Topic: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?  (Read 8435 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nixfuTopic starter

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Country: us
Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« on: November 14, 2014, 03:02:18 pm »
I was thinking about building myself a DC Electronic Load to use for testing my DC power supply circuits etc..

For a hobbist, plunking down $300-500 US for a decent BK or HP one on Ebay, seems like a bit much when there is other gear higher up on the 'could use' list.

Conceptually they are just fancy dummy loads right?  I imagine you use nearly the same techniques in building one as you do building a constant voltage/constant current power supply, just sort of in reverse.

I have not found much luck looking for designs/plans on google, and I guess that is not too surprising since its a very niche tool for the bench.   But I figured maybe someone around here if anywhere would possibly have build one before.


 

Offline lincoln

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 155
  • Country: us
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 03:27:52 pm »
Well it depends on what you are looking for. For a basic constant current, this and the beginners section is lousy with them... Most of them will have a opamp based linear regulator dumping current onto a load / scene resistor.

other interesting papers:
http://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/AN752.pdf
http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an104f.pdf

recent threads:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/active-load/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/dc-dummy-load/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/dc-load-using-a-cpu-cooler/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/constant-current-load/
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 03:45:38 pm by lincoln »
 

Offline Kohanbash

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 175
  • Country: us
    • Robots for Roboticists
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2014, 05:39:35 pm »
I have not watched them yet (I just discovered these after Dave's latest Rigol video) but EcProjects seems to have some videos on this

https://www.youtube.com/user/EcProjects/featured
Robots for Roboticists Blog - http://robotsforroboticists.com/
 

Offline wigman27

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 143
  • Country: au
    • Wiggins Wonderful Websites
Need a website designed? Check out my Australian based web development business www.wigweb.com.au for affordable fixed price packages
 

Offline nixfuTopic starter

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Country: us
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2014, 10:07:53 pm »
Wow.  I just found that one.  It is EXACLY what I was picturing in my head.  Very nice design. 

I was looking at the source code...did you ever considering adding any totals to the Arduino to automatically keep track of amp hours or anything else?

I am going to order one of your "Dave approved" :) boards and try and build one of your design myself. 
 

Offline wigman27

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 143
  • Country: au
    • Wiggins Wonderful Websites
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 11:41:29 pm »
That's great! I'm glad you have found it useful.

The link to the store is https://www.tindie.com/products/Wigman27/pcb-for-arduino-programmable-constant-current-power-resistance-load/

I only have 1 left until I can get some more (which shouldn't be too long hopefully!)

Thanks

Lee
Need a website designed? Check out my Australian based web development business www.wigweb.com.au for affordable fixed price packages
 

Offline NZST205

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 19
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 01:19:12 am »
I highly recommend these, I'm an absolute beginner and learnt a lot through the process, Lee was most knowledgeable and helpful when my ignorance (nee, sometimes laziness) got the better of me. :-+
 

Offline wigman27

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 143
  • Country: au
    • Wiggins Wonderful Websites
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2014, 02:54:12 am »

very nice, does the 1R load take up most of the thermal waste or the MOSFET?

No, the maximum current through the 1 ohm resistor is 8A therefore dissipating 8W.

The MOSFET does dissipate most of the load.

Thanks all! It's fantastic to see so many people getting help from this.

Lee
Need a website designed? Check out my Australian based web development business www.wigweb.com.au for affordable fixed price packages
 

Offline janengelbrecht

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 181
  • Country: dk
    • JP-Electronics
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 01:11:16 pm »
Answer to headline in topic: Yes : http://elektronik-forum.dk/index.php?topic=850
Is it any good ? Well to few MOSFETs people say for 4A drive :) Add 2 more :)

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 22434
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2014, 03:50:51 pm »
Related question: why is a project like this so interesting to people?

I have a box of power resistors, I test my project and that's that.  I don't understand the motivation.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline janengelbrecht

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 181
  • Country: dk
    • JP-Electronics
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 03:53:39 pm »
Related question: why is a project like this so interesting to people?

I have a box of power resistors, I test my project and that's that.  I don't understand the motivation.

Tim

Think: Having an unlimitited amount of power resistors : unlimited amounts of values :) Well if youre into designing power supplies it could come in handy. But yes...if I design a 0-30V/0-5A power supply i could just use an above 150W 6R resistor :P Or a lot of theese in parallel .... to get 6 Ohm...less demand on the Power rating... nothing is impossible :P
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 03:56:35 pm by janengelbrecht »
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28013
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2014, 04:38:43 pm »
Related question: why is a project like this so interesting to people?

I have a box of power resistors, I test my project and that's that.  I don't understand the motivation.
Adjustability for starters. And a DC load can mimic a true current source better than a resistor. The advantage of a current source is that it's resistance is infinite so if your PSU tends to oscillate you will find out. I recently build one myself which uses resistors switched with MOSFETs. Because it uses a feed-forward control scheme it can load a PSU with extremey sharp pulses (I measured 20A/us) so it is ideal to test the load step response of a power supply.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 22434
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2014, 07:31:44 pm »
But what kind of loads are even constant current?  Anymore, that is.  A resistive load is probably more representative for some purposes (e.g., CMOS logic?), but just as well, a negative resistance may be more illustrative (subsequent switcher loads)!

Transient testing is handy, in which case I put the signal generator into a MOSFET on the breadboard, same story with load resistors.  As for selection, it's hardly critical (I'm testing above and below rating anyway, which isn't usually a hard limit anyway e.g. peak current mode converters under nominal conditions), so I just grab whatever.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline janengelbrecht

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 181
  • Country: dk
    • JP-Electronics
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2014, 07:39:15 pm »
So it could be an advantage to have an AWG to control an opamp and this the MOSFETS in an active load ? To simulate a Non constant load ? hmm

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28013
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 09:14:26 pm »
But what kind of loads are even constant current? 
The collector of a transistor is a current source and ideal for testing power supplies. I used to have a self build transistor based DC load which didn't have a feedback loop. Thermal runaway is an issue (could be mitigated with a control circuit) but the load behaves almost like an ideal current sink.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline wigman27

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 143
  • Country: au
    • Wiggins Wonderful Websites
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 10:05:48 pm »
Well I can think of quite a few.

1. Testing battery discharge, if you have a project that runs on a constant current which most regulated devices will. You can test how long your batteries will last when drawing a certain current over their dropping voltage. Can't do that with resistors.

2. Testing power dissipation over a wide voltage range. If you want to test your supply to its limits and change the voltage but draw the same power, this will do it. Resistors won't.

3. You can set this to be a certain resistance also.

4. Testing voltage ripple in a rectified power supply designed for a particular project. You can draw various currents and test it over a specified range of currents, in 2ma increments.

The box of high precision power resistors you would need to test 0-8A 0-24V at 50W I would hate to think how much space that would take up let alone the cost!

That's why I built one anyway. If you prefer resistors then use resistors :-) simple.
Need a website designed? Check out my Australian based web development business www.wigweb.com.au for affordable fixed price packages
 

Offline wigman27

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 143
  • Country: au
    • Wiggins Wonderful Websites
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2014, 10:18:18 pm »
Is it any good ? Well to few MOSFETs people say for 4A drive :) Add 2 more :)

This MOSFET is capable 100A and I must say, I haven't heard of 4A per MOSFET. I wouldn't think they would make them capable of 100A if you were only supposed to put 4A through it. I can understand for heat dissipation but that's about it.
Need a website designed? Check out my Australian based web development business www.wigweb.com.au for affordable fixed price packages
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2014, 10:19:32 pm »
Some Ideas in this thread

Example

Offline janengelbrecht

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 181
  • Country: dk
    • JP-Electronics
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2014, 10:54:45 pm »
Is it any good ? Well to few MOSFETs people say for 4A drive :) Add 2 more :)

This MOSFET is capable 100A and I must say, I haven't heard of 4A per MOSFET. I wouldn't think they would make them capable of 100A if you were only supposed to put 4A through it. I can understand for heat dissipation but that's about it.

The total power is divided...that makes some sense :) Anyway I will use 3 :)

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 22434
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Anyone ever design a DC Electronic Load?
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2014, 08:15:46 am »
Well I can think of quite a few.

1. Testing battery discharge, if you have a project that runs on a constant current which most regulated devices will. You can test how long your batteries will last when drawing a certain current over their dropping voltage. Can't do that with resistors.

Just discharging a battery goes fine, but if you require dropping it to zero, yes, a resistor will get quite slow through the tail.  Though not proportionally so, because the battery itself has an exponential decay rate, so the last 50% of voltage takes less than 50% of the time, even with much less than 50% of the current draw.

Quote
2. Testing power dissipation over a wide voltage range. If you want to test your supply to its limits and change the voltage but draw the same power, this will do it. Resistors won't.

Cough... that requires negative resistance, not constant current. :)

One that's programmable for positive or negative (or infinite in the middle) resistance would cover that nicely, of course.

Quote
4. Testing voltage ripple in a rectified power supply designed for a particular project. You can draw various currents and test it over a specified range of currents, in 2ma increments.

Are you expecting that the ripple will vary in an unnatural manner from zero to nominal?

Digitizing as many points as possible can be handy, and makes nice spreadsheets, but isn't always useful.  This relates to the analytical relevance of information and sampling: unless the power supply design is shitty (weird operating modes at certain oddball currents), it should be sufficient to define its operation with just a few points and an interpolating curve.  More points are redundant.

Quote
The box of high precision power resistors you would need to test 0-8A 0-24V at 50W I would hate to think how much space that would take up let alone the cost!

Precision?
1. If I need to know something that accurately, my power supply must be a pretty crappy (razor thin margins) design!
2. If I need to know something that accurately, I'll measure it directly (volts and amps, or measure the resistance at temperature), which is better than watching it through the offset, gain and nonlinearity of a test box's digital readouts.

To check the operating area of a 0-8A, 0-24V supply, I would use probably twice as many steps as suggested by the design (presumably this example is a stepped linear regulating supply?), and also let it sit for an extended period of time on the highest current tests to verify that it can handle that power continuously (hint: those cheap Mastek and myriad clones (e.g. 30V 5A) you find on eBay won't).  If it's single range (200W square operating area instead), a grid of two or three voltages and currents will suffice to verify its operating range.

Load step is usually done with a moderate pre-load (10 or 50%) and the remainder switched; if the transient is well damped on both sides (i.e., for a load of R or 10*R), it's reasonable to expect it will tolerate a load of infinite R, and perhaps even negative R before going unstable.  (The worst negative resistance a power supply should reasonably expect is dV/dI = incremental R = -V^2 / P, the constant power curve typical of switching supplies.)  If the controller is well-behaved, the output impedance should be a well-defined RLC equivalent, which can be solved for based on transient response to find stability range.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf