Author Topic: My Model Railroad with Electronics  (Read 30764 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline IanJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1650
  • Country: scotland
  • Full time EE & Youtuber
    • IanJohnston.com
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2013, 10:40:12 am »
Automate it ^.^

I've got an idea for a novel thing to try. But maybe someones done it, need to google it...

You're thinking about having it EEVBlog Reader controlled aren't you.......?

Ian.
Ian Johnston - Original designer of the PDVS2mini || Author of the free WinGPIB app.
Website - www.ianjohnston.com
YT Channel (electronics repairs & projects): www.youtube.com/user/IanScottJohnston, Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/IanSJohnston
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2030
  • Country: au
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2013, 11:28:28 am »
Quote
I just picked up this n sale layout.
No idea what to do with it yet, very dusty!

Maybe Gomez from the Adams family, has some ideas?
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2013, 11:33:29 am »
I am not into trains but this guy is about 2 miles from me and seems to have some good stuff.  You might want to check here Dave to see if it already exists.

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37902
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2013, 11:43:39 am »
I am not into trains but this guy is about 2 miles from me and seems to have some good stuff.  You might want to check here Dave to see if it already exists.

Nope, nothing like my idea there.
Not that I know if my idea would work anyway, guess I have to try it. Yes, it's technically iffy...
 

Offline xrunnerTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2013, 12:57:04 pm »
I've got an idea for a novel thing to try. But maybe someones done it, need to google it...

It'll be interesting to see what you come up with. Every time I think I have an idea that hasn't been done I'm proven wrong. That's not to say they aren't out there. With your electronics knowledge you can probably do something unique.

I've seen that basic layout plan before, like this one with slightly different tracks?



http://www.iblproducts.com/Traunstein.htm

Looks like it's missing a bridge for one section? There's two loops (no crossover?) and four turnouts/sidings. You got a station/loading dock, an industry, a pond, a farm scene. Yea the tracks will have to be cleaned.

I tried to get my nephew interested in model trains (10 year old). I gave him an N scale track setup, an engine, and some cars, and a DC throttle. He couldn't care less about it. It can't compete with video games.  :(
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37902
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2013, 02:00:32 pm »
I've seen that basic layout plan before, like this one with slightly different tracks?

http://www.iblproducts.com/Traunstein.htm
Looks like it's missing a bridge for one section? There's two loops (no crossover?) and four turnouts/sidings. You got a station/loading dock, an industry, a pond, a farm scene. Yea the tracks will have to be cleaned.

Ah, was looking for that, thanks.
Yes, the back bridge is missing.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37902
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2013, 02:12:13 pm »
I might very well retrack it to be a bit more versatile like in the manual and your photo.
http://www.eurorailhobbies.com/pdf/Noch/NO-84810.pdf
(English version available?)
Could automate the cross over points as well and DCC the whole thing to automated control of 2 or 3 trains.
Will have the remove the station for that.
 

Offline Alana

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 297
  • Country: pl
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2013, 02:57:29 pm »
Your layout seems to be mod of this basic one wired for 2 trains running at the same time in opposite direction in DC operations, thats why it has no crossover between 2 track loops. If that was mine I'd add double crossover and re-wire it. Do you have trains for it?
 

Offline xrunnerTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2013, 11:16:03 pm »
I might very well retrack it to be a bit more versatile like in the manual and your photo.

Hey Dave you can model the outback on the layout!  :)

Do they runs trains through the outback?  :-//
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37902
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2013, 11:34:19 pm »
Hey Dave you can model the outback on the layout!  :)
Do they runs trains through the outback?  :-//

Yeah, one.
So that layout would be a single straight track, and red dirt  ;D
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37902
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2013, 11:35:59 pm »
Your layout seems to be mod of this basic one wired for 2 trains running at the same time in opposite direction in DC operations, thats why it has no crossover between 2 track loops. If that was mine I'd add double crossover and re-wire it. Do you have trains for it?

The guy I got it from is sending me a train.
Yes, obviously designed for 2 train DC control.
With crossovers, position sensors and DCC it would be possible to run an interesting 2 or even 3 car system, and on a bigger loop too.
 

Offline David_AVD

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2815
  • Country: au
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2013, 11:51:48 pm »
I designed a few accessory boards for my model railroad, but that hobby got interrupted before I finished building and coding them.  I should revisit them at some stage.
 

Offline xrunnerTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2013, 11:59:38 pm »
I designed a few accessory boards for my model railroad, but that hobby got interrupted before I finished building and coding them.  I should revisit them at some stage.

What type of boards? Using discrete components or what (you mentioned coding them).
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline David_AVD

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2815
  • Country: au
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2013, 01:34:41 am »
What type of boards? Using discrete components or what (you mentioned coding them).

One is a controller that enabled automated (back and forth) operation of a DC loco on a single section of track.  It has inputs for 4 trackside opto sensors so the train slows down before coming to a stop at the end.  It also waits at each end (passenger pickup) before reversing direction each time.

Another is a (PIC based) servo controller that went between two preset positions and has a switch input.  It might be useful for points or signals, etc.  I think you can buy little boards that do this quite cheaply now.

There are others, but I don't recall exactly what they are as it's been a few years since I did them.  (about 350 board designs ago!)
 

Offline Neilm

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Country: gb
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2013, 06:08:14 pm »
Its all very well as a hobby, but look what happened to Roland Callingham when he let his hobby get a bit out of hand. :)

This is called Bekonscot model village. This is literally in a back garden.

Neil
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tesla referral code https://ts.la/neil53539
 

Offline David_AVD

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2815
  • Country: au
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2013, 11:04:46 pm »
This is called Bekonscot model village. This is literally in a back garden.

Holy cow!   :o
 

Offline xrunnerTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2013, 11:16:30 pm »
Its all very well as a hobby, but look what happened to Roland Callingham when he let his hobby get a bit out of hand. :)

Oh don't worry - I'll never let it get out of hand.  :-DD
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37902
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2013, 11:49:29 pm »
Holy cow!   :o

No, THIS is Holy Cow!



I've been there, it's even more awesome than it looks!
 

Offline xrunnerTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2013, 09:50:20 pm »
I know you can use DCC for this but it isn't that popular with Japanese modellers, mainly because everything is N or Z gauge and there are lots of models that would be hard to retrofit.

Hi mojo-chan,

Are you talking about old models? I don't do Z, but all the modern N scale engines I know of take DCC decoders easily.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline xrunnerTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2013, 11:59:17 pm »
And, well, for whatever reason DCC just isn't popular.

That's weird, but I guess it explains why Kato keeps making their #6 turnouts route power when switched (which of course isn't needed with DCC).

I modded all mine by soldering internal wires to disable the power routing.  :)
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline C

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1346
  • Country: us
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2013, 02:25:46 am »
Not sure if I can say this properly so here goes nothing.

Think for a bit that all communications to and from a model train was done with magic, light, radio, sound, what ever , What does that model train still need and what can the other ways of communications not easily provide?

1. POWER: With dirty track, track switches, ____ there is even a need for short term power storage.

2. Position: Older systems did block detection. DCC makes this harder but not imposable. But what if you wanted more? What if the currently addressed train created a large current change, A current pulse in one or both directions. Block detection of this current pulse would allow knowing what block the addressed train is in. But could you not do more with the pulse with some timing like a TDR to determine where in the block the train is? While on position, how hard would it be for the controller added to a train to detect the rotation of the train's motor? Good detection of the motor rotation could give a mouse like reading. Just one pulse per rotation with the gear reduction would give good readings. Just one cheap optical sensor, a led, a black mark and a way to talk back and you could have mouse like counter telling you how far the train engine moved.

Back to main thought.

Previous systems to DCC had problems with signal strength. Some had EMI problems. Some had DC balance problems. If you think about it, what DCC did was make the communications to the train HUGE. So huge that the dc power could no longer exist, but done in a way that the signal it's self could be used for the train;s power source.
Now I can understand in the limited space of a small train engine not having great filters to remove in train power supply noise. I can understand the communication signal getting a little distorted do to the small amount of space in an engine.
But what is the excuse for things that do not have these tight space problems? If you look on the net, how many projects forget that what is on the track is first a communication signal and second a more expensive to create DC power source? What is the excuse for something not in a small space like a train engine pumping a lot of power supply noise back into the track signal. All that noise and distortion keeps adding making it harder for any talk back from the train system to function. It gets large enough that things with out talk back start messing up even with the huge signal DCC starts with on the track. Look at the strong suggestions made to use a separate DCC booster to power things  Yes I know you can get away with a lot, but would it not be a good idea if a circuit that was using the track signal to power the circuit to have a proper filter between the power section and the signal input to remove the noise generated from the power section? 
Is it really that hard to keep a DC input from messing with signals which are above 3 kHz that are also connected in front of the DC input?

C
     
 

Offline xrunnerTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2013, 09:39:57 pm »
Yeah, most Japanese modellers use multiple loops to control multiple trains. I believe you can remove the switched power/frog power by removing screws from the underside.

I think you can do that on the #4 switches only.

I bypass the power routing on the #6 by soldering wires and shown in the attachment (the yellow and green wires).
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline David_AVD

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2815
  • Country: au
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2013, 10:42:19 pm »
With terms like "frogs", etc people new to the hobby often wonder what the hell is being spoken about.  No different to Electronics and all the associated weird terms I guess.
 

Offline xrunnerTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2013, 02:24:34 pm »
Had some success soldering the 0603 SMD LEDs! Got a traffic light head filled.  :-+
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline David_AVD

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2815
  • Country: au
Re: My Model Railroad with Electronics
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2013, 09:01:37 pm »
Good stuff.  Much nicer colours and less current draw than the "grain of wheat" lamps I remember buying as a kid for my model railway.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf