Poll

Which test do you think will be the most effective?

Discharge 90% and leave open
2 (20%)
Discharge 100% and leave open
1 (10%)
Discharge 90% and have a light load (say 100k(10uA))
5 (50%)
Discharge 100% and have a light load (say 100k(10uA))
1 (10%)
Something else, post comment below
1 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing  (Read 3770 times)

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Online EEVblogTopic starter

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New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« on: March 26, 2020, 07:55:07 am »
So I'm going to rerun this experiment as clearly my 47ohm load last time didn't do the trick.
From what I've been able to gather, the key seems to be almost complete discharge (it will build up the most pressure near the end of it's life) and then either a very light self discharge load (I think 10uA out to do it, very typical product "standby" load), or no load at all?
Of course I can do multiple combinations.
No series cells this time, just individual ones.
And of course there would be debate over what 90% and 100% discharge is.
Obviously can't put the light load on fresh batteries or it'll take years, so test acceleration is the key.
Suggestions and comments invited!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 08:12:57 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2020, 09:36:27 am »
Only anecdotal evidence but these are the worst situations I have come up with:
1. High current pulsed discharge (couple of 10 second 10A pulses)
2. discharge to 0v and below, ie reverse polarity for weakest cell in equipment with several cells in series.  Maybe like 10% mAh capacity with reverse polarity. 
 

Offline kallek

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2020, 10:07:34 am »
This is interesting experiment. My suggestion is to drain some of the cells to about 1V per cell at 100mA current, and leave with light load. And drain some cells to 0.5V and leave with no load.
 

Offline graybeard

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2020, 07:34:46 pm »
Put the batteries in a valuable piece of equipment since those are the ones that always seem to leak. ;)

Temperature cycle the batteries while partially drained and with a very light load.  Most real devices see temperature cycles somtimes extreme.

For example device left in a car could see temperature as high as 140ºF (60ºC) when left in a closed car in the sun summer, and below freezing -10ºF (-23ºC) in the winter.  Uninsulated garages where many items are left also see temperature extremes.  Even houses which have the heating and colling reduced when occupants are away can have large temperature excursions.

Perhaps it is a combination of being discharged and or slowly discharging plus the expansion and contraction of temperature variations that causes the leaks.

Offline graybeard

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Temperature driven
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2020, 08:11:29 pm »
Besides the temperature cycling you could run the test as several elevated temperatures.  Most failure mechanisms are Arrhenius and have an associated activation energy. 

By running the test at several elevated temperatures you could both speed up the failures and measure the activation energy of failure mechanism. 

Over the years I have designed hardware for many reliability tests and most failure mechanisms are both temperature and current driven.   Typically failures rates are exponentially dependent on Temperature (0.5 to 2 EV being a typical activation energy) and dependent on current density raised to a fixed exponent (typically 1 to4). 

Sometime humidity plays a role, but controlled humidity experiments are much more complicated to design.  However since battery leakage does seem related to corrosion perhaps moisture is a factor.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 10:23:33 pm by graybeard »
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2020, 10:48:40 pm »
You should probably discharge it below 0V.
Let me explain. If it is in a pack of 4 batteries, and one is weaker, than that gets to 0V first. Then the device still discharges them, than that weak cell goes into something called cell reversal. At least, thats what they call it with Li-ion batteries. I'm almost sure that this is causing the leak, and not the discharge.
You know, what they always say... Dont turn it on Dont mix batteries, use a fresh pack.
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2020, 12:33:55 am »
You should probably discharge it below 0V.
Let me explain. If it is in a pack of 4 batteries, and one is weaker, than that gets to 0V first. Then the device still discharges them, than that weak cell goes into something called cell reversal. At least, thats what they call it with Li-ion batteries. I'm almost sure that this is causing the leak, and not the discharge.
You know, what they always say... Dont turn it on Dont mix batteries, use a fresh pack.

I did that in the first video and several cells went reverse. None of them leaked.
I think it's better to mostly discharge and then put a light load on it.
 

Offline graybeard

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2020, 05:27:25 am »
An easy experiment to see if moisture exposure before use is an issue is to store some in a box with a slightly damp rad to increase the local humidity.  Some of this moisture will diffuse into the batteries.
Store others in a box with desiccant.  Then treat them the same during the experiment and see if there is a difference between the two populations.

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2020, 08:14:59 am »
An easy experiment to see if moisture exposure before use is an issue is to store some in a box with a slightly damp rad to increase the local humidity.  Some of this moisture will diffuse into the batteries.
Store others in a box with desiccant.  Then treat them the same during the experiment and see if there is a difference between the two populations.

Good idea, but probably not for this video.
 

Offline magic

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2020, 08:23:10 am »
Do it the other way around.

Use only Duracells and try all of the combinations you posted plus whatever else people come up with ;)

edit
My personal experience: discharge them in a camera until the ESR rises enough that the camera shuts down, then leave them alone for months/years.
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2020, 08:41:05 am »
My personal experience: discharge them in a camera until the ESR rises enough that the camera shuts down, then leave them alone for months/years.

I have an old AA camera ;D
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2020, 11:58:02 am »
Go to the store and buy one of the 30 packs of RayOVac, I have found brand new leaking cells in those packs before.
 

Online bill_c

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2020, 12:50:04 pm »
Maybe its a mechanical problem.  Get a plastic pipe that the cells will fit in that is say .5m or longer and place it over a hard surface (like concrete floor, not wood workbench). Drop a dummy cell in the tube, then the test cell, then another dummy cell, all + side up.  This is kinda simulates dropping a flashlight or remote.  If all goes wrong, it may weaken the seal just enough to leak when discharged in one of the above tests. The potassium hydroxide reacts with carbon dioxide in the air to form potassium carbonate (the white powder) so an enclosure that limits air movement but not sealed (similar to a remote or camera, but not a food storage container).  I think a rapid pressure increase would compress the seal and make it less likely to leak, so I favor a slow discharge from start to end.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 12:51:39 pm by bill_c »
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2020, 01:50:05 pm »
Nowadays, most devices don't really turn off but only go into a very low current standby mode.

However, years ago devices had a mechanical switch which would completely disconnect the batteries, and they would still leak.

My suspicion is that leakage has to do with the quality of the battery's construction as well as the other variables.

But as Graybeard mentioned, only half joking, to place batteries in an irreplaceable piece of equipment is the only sure way to cause a battery to leak.
 

Offline graybeard

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2020, 10:13:08 pm »
Go to the store and buy one of the 30 packs of RayOVac, I have found brand new leaking cells in those packs before.

I had been happily using Rayovac for many years.  However the last two batches I bought had many that turned into leakers.  Rayovac is now made by the same corporation that makes Enigizer.

Offline Prehistoricman

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2020, 10:24:29 pm »
More anecdotes:

I've found that smoke detector batteries have a high chance of leaking/exploding. They must have a light load to get the lifetime high.

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2020, 10:52:56 pm »

Put the batteries in a valuable piece of equipment since those are the ones that always seem to leak. ;)


You can bet on that  :clap:

DJ may have to choose an expensive or irreplaceable 'sacrifice'  :'(   if the current testing isn't going anywhere  :horse:  |O

 

Offline graybeard

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2020, 07:10:40 am »
From the Energizer publication: Alkaline Manganese Dioxide Handbook and Application Manual

On page 13: Do store batteries in a cool, dry place at normal room temperature.  Remove batteries from devices that will be stored for extended periods. -- this suggests that moisture intrusion and elevated temperatures is an issue.

On page 14: Don’t mix old and new batteries, or mix different types or makes of batteries.  This can cause rupture or leakage, resulting in personal injury or property damage -- this suggests that to get them to leak you should mix batteries in different states of discharge.

From this Duracell publication: Alkaline-Manganese Dioxide

On page 11 section 7.1: Batteries should be stored at temperatures between 50°F (10°C) and 77°F (25°C), with relative humidity not exceeding 65 percent. Refrigeration of alkaline batteries is not necessary because of their very good capacity retention. Excessive temperature cycling and storage at temperatures greater than 77°F (25°C)should be avoided to maximize shelf life. -- this suggests the both extreme temperatures and high humidity should be avoided.  Although this is not stated as being a cause of leakage it certainly could be a contributing factor.

Duracell publication: Alkaline Manganese Dioxide Battery Product Safety, Transportation and Disposal This also suggest limiting temperature and humidity.

This in an interesting paper from University of Babylon in Hillah, Iraq: ALKALINE-MANGANESE DIOXIDE BATTERIES -- this is a good summary of cell sizes, construction methods and materials

This paper on a US DOE web site describes in detail the chemical mechanism of battery leakage: Understanding the Dynamics of Primary Zn-Mn02 Alkaline Battery Gassing with Operando Visualization and Pressure Cells -- "It is shown that steep concentration gradients emerge during the cell discharge through a redox electrolyte mechanism, leading to the formation of high surface area Zn deposits that experience rapid corrosion when the cell rests to its open circuit voltage. Such corrosion is paired with the release of hydrogen and high cell pressure" —eventually leading to cell rupture" --  to me the paper suggests that fast high current discharge followed an open circuit may be best way to get leakage.  It also has some interesting electron microscope photos.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 05:13:16 pm by graybeard »
 
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Offline magic

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2020, 07:59:36 am »
This paper on a US DOE web site describes in detail the chemical mechanism of battery leakage: Understanding the Dynamics of Primary Zn-Mn02 Alkaline Battery Gassing with Operando Visualization and Pressure Cells -- "It is shown that steep concentration gradients emerge during the cell discharge through a redox electrolyte mechanism, leading to the formation of high surface area Zn deposits that experience rapid corrosion when the cell rests to its open circuit voltage. Such corrosion is paired with the release of hydrogen and high cell pressure" —eventually leading to cell rupture" --  to me the paper suggests that fast high current discharge followed an open circuit may be best way to get leakage.  It also has some interesting electron microscope photos.
Good find. It seems that what it takes is a fast discharge and then open circuit.
Not sure if deep discharge increases chances of leaking or if it's enough to just get to the point of rising ESR as formation of "black Zn" (blamed for leaking) appears to be correlated with "cell passivation" (blamed for ESR).
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2020, 08:08:37 am »
I was sorting out some random batteries I had lying around benches by measuring the short-circuit current of them and found out that every one of them had leaked 6mo later. (but most were chinese Ikea batteries)
I replace probably 200 AA batteries per year at work and the old ones go to collection bin. Last time I was emptying it 99% of the batteries that had been sitting there probably up to 3 years after use were still looking ok.
 
 

Offline magic

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2020, 08:14:20 am »
By the way, it's a very different story with NiMH.

I have seen a few NiMH cells which leaked simply from lying unused for many years. One pair was pulled out of a cordless mouse, so it has never seen a fast discharges in its entire life, another I'm not even sure if it had ever been used at all.
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2020, 08:30:40 am »
This paper on a US DOE web site describes in detail the chemical mechanism of battery leakage: Understanding the Dynamics of Primary Zn-Mn02 Alkaline Battery Gassing with Operando Visualization and Pressure Cells -- "It is shown that steep concentration gradients emerge during the cell discharge through a redox electrolyte mechanism, leading to the formation of high surface area Zn deposits that experience rapid corrosion when the cell rests to its open circuit voltage. Such corrosion is paired with the release of hydrogen and high cell pressure" —eventually leading to cell rupture" --  to me the paper suggests that fast high current discharge followed an open circuit may be best way to get leakage.  It also has some interesting electron microscope photos.

Thanks. I might give them a final 2A burst or something, they are currently on a 24hr 100mA discharge, as per this video:
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2020, 08:55:47 am »
Not sure if mentioned before, but what about the metal to metal differences between the battery and device terminals ?

Scenario:

air tight battery enclosure,

flat batteries,

metal to different metal thermocoupling effect ..or whatever it's called  :-//

resulting in internal expanding gasses in the battery with nowhere to go   

sealings compromised (kaput/knackered)

SPLAT n SPEW  :o

= C virus bankrupted Fluke or Brymen owners not happy campers  >:( :rant:

« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 09:19:21 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline graybeard

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2020, 03:39:59 pm »
This is figure 6 from Understanding the Dynamics of Primary Zn-Mn02 Alkaline Battery Gassing with Operando Visualization and Pressure Cells

It shows both the recovery of voltage and the build-up of internal pressure when the battery is open-circuited from a hard discharge.



Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi, so 0 psig=14.7psi absolute.  So the normal hydrogen partial pressure is approximately 3 atmospheres.   So the peak partial pressure shown of 193 psig is 13.1 atmospheres.

For comparison, for submersion in water pressure increases one atmosphere for every 33 feet (10m).   Thus the peak partial pressure of H inside the battery equivalent to the water pressure at a depth of 400 feet (131m).   Based on the graph the pressure was still increasing at the end of the measurement so there is no reason to think it does increase to a higher value than shown. --> No wonder they leak!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 05:11:55 pm by graybeard »
 

Online Conrad Hoffman

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Re: New Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2020, 08:30:48 pm »
IMO, running down and leaving with a low load is the worst. I used to have an answering machine with a terrible design- when the batteries got low it would light an LED to let you know! :scared: The thing was the worst battery leakage device I've ever seen.
 


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