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Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: CaveMannDave on November 04, 2019, 10:33:10 pm

Title: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: CaveMannDave on November 04, 2019, 10:33:10 pm
 : :Everybody, what do you think about THIS monumental FAIL!
    Can you say Heavy Metal Toxicity?
How about trace and joint contamination?

Quote
https://youtu.be/WUjxtrK1xTM
Who wants to employ this technique  on customer  repairs?

Cheers,
Dave
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: KaneTW on November 04, 2019, 10:41:36 pm
Mercury in liquid form isn't particularly dangerous. The problem here is residual mercury causing joint failure down the line, and potential RoHS/whatever issues.

E: oh, he takes a soldering iron to it. As long as the fumes are sucked off (fume hood or similar) it should be fine. Mercury vapors are not something you should breathe. But soldering in a fume hood sounds like a giant headache, and I doubt that dude's doing it.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: tooki on November 04, 2019, 10:52:31 pm
Fucking hell, soldering with mercury is right up there among dumb ideas. And then using a toothbrush to clean off the dross... hello ESD damage. (Solvents don’t prevent ESD damage. In fact, I saw a report about a chemical plant explosion caused by static buildup in alcohol, caused by the alcohol flow.)
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: CaveMannDave on November 04, 2019, 11:08:36 pm
Kane, Thanks for seconding my objections to this method.  ;Dni

Tookie: i hadn't considered the static discharge aspect (goodbye expensive, perhaps irreplaceable device),  but was appalled by little QuickSilver particles flying around the area.

Did "he" actually recommend gasoline (petrol) for cleanup, or was that another video?

Cheers,
Dave
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: DaJMasta on November 04, 2019, 11:19:04 pm
That seems incredibly stupid.... and raw mercury may actually be harder to find and more expensive in the US than a cheap hot air gun....  and while the liquid may not be dangerous to have around, it's very dangerous to handle, so the residue on the iron, the splatters from flux boiling, the residue on the board.... all of it would be effectively hazardous waste not suitable for a landfill.


Mercury's boiling point is about 350C, too, so it doesn't take much extra heat from your iron before you're breathing it even with a decent flow fume hood.  They overlay "safe soldering" on the video like they're trying to reassure themselves...... the right equipment is so inexpensive, don't throw your health away handling and trying to solder with mercury.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: not1xor1 on November 05, 2019, 06:45:23 am
what about galinstan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galinstan) or other similar eutectic alloys?
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: magic on November 05, 2019, 07:46:15 am
Indeed, I'm not going to waste my time watching it but from the reaction here I gather that the guy has never heard of products like QuikChip.

That being said, I just carefully use a low power heatgun on the rare occasion I need do desolder some large SMD crap.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: xavier60 on November 05, 2019, 09:06:50 am
I got some  Wood's metal off ebay to then find that Wood's metal contains toxic Cadmium. For the short time I used it, I found it very good for removing SMD parts at reduced temperature.
But I don't think I was sent pure Wood's metal anyway because it becomes a paste at about 100°C and liquid about 130°C.
Looking for low melt solder on ebay, I found this, https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Special-130-degree-C-low-melt-temperature-solder-wire-dia-0-5mm-4-meter-length/142018652365?hash=item2110f8a8cd:g:oLsAAOSwpdpVWp9U (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Special-130-degree-C-low-melt-temperature-solder-wire-dia-0-5mm-4-meter-length/142018652365?hash=item2110f8a8cd:g:oLsAAOSwpdpVWp9U)
Which also has Cadmium.
Rose's metal appears to be safe if the supplies available on ebay can be trusted to be non-contaminated.
I don't see why an alloy needs to be eutectic for the application.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/75g-Alloy-Rose-Roses-metal-Roses-metal-Lead-Bismuth-Tin-alloy/183658130100?hash=item2ac2e0aab4:g:d0IAAOSwtaBcMxiK (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/75g-Alloy-Rose-Roses-metal-Roses-metal-Lead-Bismuth-Tin-alloy/183658130100?hash=item2ac2e0aab4:g:d0IAAOSwtaBcMxiK)
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: m3vuv on November 05, 2019, 09:53:58 am
if ive a scrap bourd i want the ic's etc from i put it on my cooker hob give it 2 mins then invert the board and give it a bash on my worktop,never fails to get them out without damage!
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: tooki on November 05, 2019, 10:04:40 am
Tookie: i hadn't considered the static discharge aspect (goodbye expensive, perhaps irreplaceable device),  but was appalled by little QuickSilver particles flying around the area.
Right? I'm sure little balls of mercury amalgam rolling around a board full of fine-pitch SMD chips is a GREAT idea!


Did "he" actually recommend gasoline (petrol) for cleanup, or was that another video?
He sure did!!

Now, using hydrocarbon solvents for PCB cleanup is totally valid — n-hexane is a fabulous (if highly neurotoxic) solvent, and many flux removers are blends of alcohols and hydrocarbons. But vehicle gasoline is full of additives, and I'm sure it's not good as a cleaner. Knowing this guy, he'd probably recommend using leaded gas, too...

I suppose it's possible that in whatever country he's in, petrol could also refer to some other kind of hydrocarbon substance which could be more suited. (For example, here in Switzerland, "Petrol" in the grocery store is lamp fuel.)
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: tooki on November 05, 2019, 10:05:30 am
Indeed, I'm not going to waste my time watching it but from the reaction here I gather that the guy has never heard of products like QuikChip.

That being said, I just carefully use a low power heatgun on the rare occasion I need do desolder some large SMD crap.
Oh, it's time well spent.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: coromonadalix on November 05, 2019, 10:26:02 am
stupid ways to remove a chip,   use an hot air station thats all   pfffff

You overheat the board, and you may damage the pcb traces  etc ....   not all pcb are well made .......
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: Miti on November 05, 2019, 10:58:00 am
Mercury in liquid form isn't particularly dangerous. The problem here is residual mercury causing joint failure down the line, and potential RoHS/whatever issues.

Mercury creates vapours at room temperature. Watch this:
https://youtu.be/aSO3ykbaiM8

Now imagine that you buy a house where a dumbfuck like this applied his “safe” technique all day long in his basement lab. Or you take your TV to him to repair. You bring it back full of mercury droplets. Then after few months you wonder what’s with this crushing fatigue that all your family feels.

Idiots at work !
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on November 05, 2019, 11:26:18 am
LOL, what an idiot! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: tooki on November 05, 2019, 12:14:48 pm
LOL, what an idiot! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning
And getting dumber, no doubt, from the chronic mercury poisoning.

This is what he replied to someone's safety concern in the comments:
"It is also used in the preparation of pharmaceuticals, if it does not go into the mouth, there is no harm in it . I'm using it for many years for desoldering. it is not harmful."

I mean, 180 degrees backwards. (Elemental mercury ingestion is pretty much harmless, but the vapors definitely are not.)
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on November 05, 2019, 01:45:21 pm
Yet another one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erethism

Quote
and in some extreme cases with prolonged exposure to mercury vapors, delirium, personality changes and memory loss
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: DBecker on November 05, 2019, 06:09:25 pm
I don't see why an alloy needs to be eutectic for the application.

Addressing only this very narrow point..

I don't see any value in an eutectic alloy.  Your goal is to dissolve the existing solder, which will immediately move the resulting alloy away from the eutectic point.  Unless I'm missing some effect, the ideal would be alloy that moves closer to the eutectic point when mixed with the existing solder. 
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: janoc on November 05, 2019, 07:00:06 pm
I have actually reported this video to Youtube under the "Dangerous acts" category. They better take it down before some idiot (and there are plenty of them in the comments!) decides to emulate this fool.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: tooki on November 05, 2019, 07:19:23 pm
I did the same thing earlier today. It’s totally reckless. I also took the liberty of using copy-and-paste to reply to many of the comments with a warning.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: Shock on November 05, 2019, 07:23:00 pm
I think he is using Gallium, you can see it solidify as it puts it on the top of the IC. I would think Mercury would be more liquid. If it's pure Gallium its boiling point is 2400C. Not sure how much of an effect it would have but it's corrosive to other metals so you would want to remove it thoroughly.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: magic on November 05, 2019, 07:52:59 pm
I have actually reported this video to Youtube under the "Dangerous acts" category. They better take it down before some idiot (and there are plenty of them in the comments!) decides to emulate this fool.
Knowing YT they will kindly ignore your report or if they don't, the video will be reuploaded next day together with a short commentary about New World Order taking down videos to sell more hot air stations.

I also took the liberty of using copy-and-paste to reply to many of the comments with a warning.
You do it because you know they don't care about your opinion :P
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: tooki on November 05, 2019, 08:16:09 pm
I think he is using Gallium, you can see it solidify as it puts it on the top of the IC. I would think Mercury would be more liquid. If it's pure Gallium its boiling point is 2400C. Not sure how much of an effect it would have but it's corrosive to other metals so you would want to remove it thoroughly.
At the end of the video he says it’s mercury and calls it “harmless”.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: boffin on November 05, 2019, 08:57:00 pm
just use Chipquick

And there's an Eevblog video for that too....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmD7F0--7Lc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmD7F0--7Lc)

Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: Shock on November 05, 2019, 09:12:26 pm
At the end of the video he says it’s mercury and calls it “harmless”.

The second half of the video is muted for me. But as I said it doesn't look like Mercury unless it has already been turned into an alloy. Could be a Gallium Tin alloy that can melt around 25-28C. Anyway nice screwdriver tip he is using. :)
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: janoc on November 05, 2019, 09:25:32 pm
I think he is using Gallium, you can see it solidify as it puts it on the top of the IC. I would think Mercury would be more liquid. If it's pure Gallium its boiling point is 2400C. Not sure how much of an effect it would have but it's corrosive to other metals so you would want to remove it thoroughly.
At the end of the video he says it’s mercury and calls it “harmless”.

It is certainly not gallium, gallium isn't liquid below 29C or so (you can see it is well liquid when he is picking it up from that tin). Unless his room was very hot, there is no way it would work like that - it would be either solid or semi-solid until heated up.

He also mentions several times in the comments it is mercury - which is apparently easy to get in India or where he is from. He mentions in the comments that it can be easily bought in stores (it is used in traditional Indian ayurveda medicine, together with lead - yay). Gallium isn't commonly sold as it has little domestic/traditional medicine uses apart from thermometers.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: janoc on November 05, 2019, 09:28:44 pm
I have actually reported this video to Youtube under the "Dangerous acts" category. They better take it down before some idiot (and there are plenty of them in the comments!) decides to emulate this fool.
Knowing YT they will kindly ignore your report or if they don't, the video will be reuploaded next day together with a short commentary about New World Order taking down videos to sell more hot air stations.

I also took the liberty of using copy-and-paste to reply to many of the comments with a warning.
You do it because you know they don't care about your opinion :P

So in other words it is better to not even try and sit with a smug face and smartass comments instead.  |O

I am not naive, but if nobody reports such content, then no wonder that nothing is done.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: magic on November 06, 2019, 07:30:33 am
So in other words it is better to not even try and sit with a smug face and smartass comments instead.  |O
I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't believe it :-+

On one hand a guy who has been using mercury for years and is still alive, on the other hand a guy who says that by his logic the other guy should be dead. Who wins?
And if Indians or whoever consider mercury a medicine then guess what, kicking them out of YT will at best push them to some Indian site where no one will see anything weird in it.

I don't understand people who get emotional about shit they find on the Internet. :-//
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: janoc on November 06, 2019, 10:04:54 am
So in other words it is better to not even try and sit with a smug face and smartass comments instead.  |O
I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't believe it :-+

On one hand a guy who has been using mercury for years and is still alive, on the other hand a guy who says that by his logic the other guy should be dead. Who wins?

I guess you don't understand that "handling mercury" and "soldering with it" (= heating it up, producing clouds of toxic fumes and splatter) is not quite the same thing. Also mercury won't kill you outright - you know, it used to be used as a remedy for syphilis, typhoid fever or parasites (yes, you were literally asked to drink it, if the patient died, oops, clearly that parasite was too strong and mercury dose too small!). The problem is long term exposure - the dose is cumulative, mercury accumulates in your body over time (same as lead and cadmium).

That the guy isn't dead yet means squat - the video has been posted on 25th of October, he claims it is a "new method", so it is very likely he isn't doing this for a sufficiently long time to have accumulated enough dose to have serious problems yet.

You are only showing your ignorance, dude.

And if Indians or whoever consider mercury a medicine then guess what, kicking them out of YT will at best push them to some Indian site where no one will see anything weird in it.

I don't understand people who get emotional about shit they find on the Internet. :-//

So in other words, it is better to not do anything and let clueless idiots get hurt/poisoned, even though we can at least alert YT about it. I can't do squat about any Indian websites but that doesn't mean we should ignore shit like this where we can do something about it.

Wonderful attitude - are you also that guy who, when seeing a road accident, whips up the phone and starts filming instead of trying to help, because "it won't make any difference anyway"?

 :palm:
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: BrianHG on November 06, 2019, 10:18:45 am
Now, clean metallic mercury isn't in it's most dangerous form, I DO NOT MEAN IT IS SAFE, however, if any of that metallic mercury you come into contact with has any tiny amount it in it's organic form, you WILL suffer the consequences slowly over time, no matter what.  Only the dosage will determine the speed at which the following will develop, and once such an exposure has happened, you will not know until it is too late:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ7M01jV058 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ7M01jV058)

Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: ptricks on November 06, 2019, 04:08:06 pm
Considering both the cost and related health concerns I can't see this as efficient except for the time actually removing the chip, there is all the prep, then the cleanup, so not really time saving.
My efficient method is an xacto knife across the pins at the chip so you don't cut traces, then lift the chip off and drag solder off the pins left on the board. Takes about 5 minutes and the board is ready.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: tooki on November 06, 2019, 08:06:33 pm
At the end of the video he says it’s mercury and calls it “harmless”.

The second half of the video is muted for me. But as I said it doesn't look like Mercury unless it has already been turned into an alloy. Could be a Gallium Tin alloy that can melt around 25-28C. Anyway nice screwdriver tip he is using. :)
It looks like he’s wiped every trace of him mentioning mercury. The video used to have scrolling text at the end, describing it as “harmless” mercury, and that’s gone now. And he’s deleted every comment where he says what it is or where to get it.
Title: Re: NEW, SUPER-EFFICIENT DESOLDERING METHOD. Yeah, right...
Post by: tooki on November 06, 2019, 08:08:49 pm
That the guy isn't dead yet means squat - the video has been posted on 25th of October, he claims it is a "new method", so it is very likely he isn't doing this for a sufficiently long time to have accumulated enough dose to have serious problems yet.
In a now-deleted reply to a comment, he said he’d been using it for years without problems.