Author Topic: Super Capacitor found?  (Read 5224 times)

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Online Mechatrommer

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Super Capacitor found?
« on: June 10, 2013, 03:25:35 am »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline Fsck

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 03:27:33 am »
doesn't say anything about capacity.
"This is a one line proof...if we start sufficiently far to the left."
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 04:10:49 am »
High school students without technical training do not make groundbreaking technical inventions.

But anyway, reality check:

My phone has a 5 Wh battery (give or take). The charger can deliver 5 W continuously (5 V, 1 A). So whatever battery technology is inside the phone it is going to take at least 1 h to charge.

If I want to charge the phone in 5 minutes I need to increase the charger power to 50 W. Instead of a pocket sized cube, the charger is now a big and much more expensive brick similar in size to a laptop power supply. This is going to be a hard sell for the marketing folks, and a tough problem for the accountants since the power brick won't be cheap.

I predict the average consumer phone won't be charging in 5 minutes any time soon.
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Online mariush

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 04:30:50 am »
I don't remember exactly the value, but the "innovation" is that it stores about 3-8 times the amount of energy per gram compared to current super capacitors. 

Yeah, here's a more detailed article :

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Teenagers-Power-Storage-Project-Lights-Up-Science-World-78085.html

Quote
Khare designed, synthesized and characterized a core-shell nanorod electrode with a hydrogenated titanium dioxide core and polyaniline shell.

The titanium dioxide acts as a double-layer electrostatic core. In electric double-layer capacitors, the electrical charge stored at the interface of a metal, and an electrolyte is used to construct a storage device.

The good conductivity of the hydrogenated titanium dioxide combined with the high pseudocapacity of polyaniline results in heightened overall capacitance and energy density while retaining power density and cycle life. Pseudocapacitance can increase the capacitance value of a supercapacitor by an order of magnitude over the double-layer's capacitance.

Researchers often work with one form of titanium dioxide, anatase, but Khare grew rutile titanium dioxide crystals instead because "rutile offered a direct electron transport pathway" even though it was harder to grow.

She put down an initial seed growth of rutile on a flexible substrate and used thermodynamic growth, where the rutile aggregated on top of itself.

The new electrode was fabricated into a flexible solid-state device to light an LED as a test of a practical application. It demonstrated a capacitance of 238.5 Farads per gram compared to the 80 F/G of the next best alternative supercapacitor in previous research. This resulted in excellent energy density of 20.1 Wh/kg, comparable to batteries, while maintaining a high power density of 20540 W/kg. It also demonstrated a much higher cycle life compared to batteries.

20.1 Wh/kg doesn't seem to me comparable to lithium batteries but I'm not sure about that.
 

Offline Neereus

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 04:33:22 am »
This is a case of the media being the media.
Went something like this:

Girl: In just 20 seconds I can charge my capacitor to light an LED!

Media Reporting: Girl invents way to charge phone in 20 seconds!

What she did was no less impressive, just not in the way the media thinks.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 04:37:50 am »
This is a case of the media being the media.
Went something like this:

Girl: In just 20 seconds I can charge my capacitor to light an LED!

Media Reporting: Girl invents way to charge phone in 20 seconds!

What she did was no less impressive, just not in the way the media thinks.

Just wait till those finance's medias reporting ... "Buy Tesla Motors stocks, they're going to hire her and buy the patent ! "   :palm:

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 06:17:38 am »
o
High school students without technical training do not make groundbreaking technical inventions.

Not unless you are Philo Farnsworth! ;D
But,then,he was a Super Geek &,I believe the inspiration for Walt Disney's Gyro Gearloose!
 

Offline smashedProton

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 06:27:12 am »
I smell complete bullshit.  From her interview, It is obvious that she doesn't speak the language.
http://www.garrettbaldwin.com/

Invention, my dear friends, is 93% perspiration, 6% electricity, 4% evaporation, and 2% butterscotch ripple.
 

Offline M. András

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 06:28:14 am »
a led? define it for god sake. a 100w power led or a 10mw 3mm led? lithium battery are around 200wh/kg
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 06:38:03 am »
a led? define it for god sake. a 100w power led or a 10mw 3mm led? lithium battery are around 200wh/kg

Exactly,for many of us from the older generation a LED is a thing you use for an indicator light on a front panel.
To other,younger, people it is a large,light source capable of illuminating a room.

The same applies to MOSFETS---I think of an RF amplifier in a radio receiver when I hear the term. ;D
 

Offline M. András

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 08:43:37 am »
yeah like the marketing bullshit on the led backlit lcd tv-s they call it led tv bullshit, then why didnt they call the previous generation ccfl tv?

(off topic but connects to leds, does anyone know which led manufacters have their owm fabs for their products?)
 

Offline westfw

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 09:09:35 am »
Quote
It is obvious that she doesn't speak the language.
Don't be such a hater.  And never underestimate the ability of the press to make brilliant people sound like idiots.  By the time (anyone) simplifies the chemistry/nanotech of something like this so that the popular press can understand it, it's always going to come out "it charges faster than a battery and lights a light."
These days you don't win major science fairs by cheating; you can assume that she's done something pretty impressive, and it's only a matter of sifting the media accounts to figure out what.

Here's the link to the actual project abstract: http://www.usc.edu/CSSF//History/2013/Projects/S0912.pdf

Her cell doesn't seem to hold up to the claims of "several times better than previous research", since wikipedia says graphene and carbon aerogel supercaps have both hit ~80+Wh/kg energy density.  But then hers is a different type of cell, too.  Perhaps it means several times better than previous TiO2-electrode supercaps.  Li-ion batteries are up at over 200Wh/kg.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 10:51:44 am »
whats sounded like a bollock was... "charging cellphone in 20 secs" i thought it meant charging a li ion battery or something (our normal current tech battery) at a lot more than 10C? that will shorten the life isnt it? or maybe i misunderstood it meant the super capacitor can replace current batttery technology? if that was meant then we are at the next level of battery technology? ie a capacitor that has capacity (energy density) as battery, but got charged in instantaneously as a normal capacitor does? whatever it is she got awarded $50K bucks for that. the next thing she should do is "patent it"! so apple wont be able to steal the idea :P
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2013, 11:26:32 am »
Quote
It is obvious that she doesn't speak the language.
Don't be such a hater.  And never underestimate the ability of the press to make brilliant people sound like idiots.  By the time (anyone) simplifies the chemistry/nanotech of something like this so that the popular press can understand it, it's always going to come out "it charges faster than a battery and lights a light."
These days you don't win major science fairs by cheating; you can assume that she's done something pretty impressive, and it's only a matter of sifting the media accounts to figure out what.

Here's the link to the actual project abstract: http://www.usc.edu/CSSF//History/2013/Projects/S0912.pdf

Her cell doesn't seem to hold up to the claims of "several times better than previous research", since wikipedia says graphene and carbon aerogel supercaps have both hit ~80+Wh/kg energy density.  But then hers is a different type of cell, too.  Perhaps it means several times better than previous TiO2-electrode supercaps.  Li-ion batteries are up at over 200Wh/kg.
And for comparison, lead acid is at 40Wh/kg so supercapacitors now have better energy density than some traditional batteries.
 

Offline DerekZahn

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2013, 11:40:43 am »
a little googling around revealed that this isnt completely uncharted territory...

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDownload.aspx?paperID=20322

that paper reports a max of around 120 W-hr/kg for some TiO2/polyaniline/etc thing they synthesized...  i don't know much about this subject though!!!

I imagine that she did some similar sort of experiment, novelty content uncertain but not too high, then her enthusiastic talk and an idiot sensationalist press blew it up into something ridiculous.

Even so, what ahe did is certainly more than I could have done at her age (even if i had her scientist parents), and she did come in second in the contest (the winner did some sort of autonomous vehicle programming thing IIRC)...  Good for her!!  Not her fault that the press went nuts...
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Super Capacitor found?
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2013, 02:55:16 pm »
o
High school students without technical training do not make groundbreaking technical inventions.

Not unless you are Philo Farnsworth! ;D
But,then,he was a Super Geek &,I believe the inspiration for Walt Disney's Gyro Gearloose!
Or thomas edison...
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 


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