Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
Opamps - Die pictures
Noopy:
--- Quote from: ballsystemlord on February 08, 2025, 07:26:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: ballsystemlord on February 08, 2025, 12:58:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: Noopy on February 08, 2025, 10:19:50 am ---A good starting point is Ken Shirriff´s blog: https://www.righto.com/ There is a lot of complex stuff and history and... but there are also some articles which show real transistors and explain where the different layers are.
You will also find some explanations on my website. ;)
--- End quote ---
Thanks, but I look at where you say things are and can't understand what I'm looking at most of the time. For CPUs and GPUs, tech websites highlight the overall block structure, but not for your site. This makes it easier for professionals to see what is going on, but for me I have no idea. How do I tell what is N or P doped silicon? How do I tell what is a wire/signal path and what is not (a resistor or heater is a good example of what looks kinda like a wire/signal path and is not)? And which part is the base part and which is the emitter and collector, etc? This is where I am at.
If you want to improve/simplify your site, I'd suggest treating the floor plans like a maze in a childrens' coloring book. Color the path at each point and explain from there.
--- End quote ---
I could explain everything I do in more detail but that would decrease the number of parts I can show and explain. If you study Ken Shirrifs blog and the link magic has posted you should make a big step forward and understand much more.
--- End quote ---
Thanks! Just to be clear, I wasn't hoping that you'd highlight each and every part that you do. More like pick out a few good examples (one easy, one complex?) and dedicate a few webpages to the topic of, "How to 'read' the floor plans?"
Thanks
[/quote]
Thanks for the hint. Sounds like a good idea. :-+
...another ToDo on my big list... ;D
Simmed:
i saw something interesting on the webs
and decided to give it a search
mvv200 = the 1 with the choo choo train + tracks (a lecroy chip)
D Straney:
ballsystemlord: If you want something to practice on, here's an extra-simple, large-feature, distinctly-colored photo I got from a mystery hybrid module. I think it's an op-amp based on the pinout matching an old standard, like the LM101) but I can't guarantee anything.
- If you assume the pinout is correct, then you can assume that the bias for the differential input pair is a current sink (because it's connected to V-) and therefore has an NPN transistor. You also then know that the differential input pair is made from NPN transistors. Now you know what the colors are for P vs. N silicon.
- Can you see the connections within the input differential pair? The basic structure of a bipolar transistor is C-B-E, so you know that the base must be in the middle. If you can see the 3 nested "tubs" in each input-pair transistor, then you've got a good start. In this case, I know the inner "tub" is the emitter because it's common to both input transistors, and goes through a current sink to V- (meaning that it fits together with the knowledge that the input pair must be either an NPN pair with emitters sinked to V-, or a PNP pair with emitters sourced from V+).
- See if you can figure out what the output protection is doing. To me, it looks like there's multiple types of over-current protection: series resistors on both output sink & source transistors (between their collectors and V+/V-), and then a separate circuit for the current-sourcing side that uses a small current-sense resistor across B-E of an additional NPN that can "steal" base current from the output source transistor, when it's turned on by sufficiently high output current.
Andy B:
Hi all,
I found that the Motorola part LMT324 shown in a Antoine Bercovici die shot on SiliconPr0n is really a rebadged Toshiba TA75902.
https://www.siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php?id=bercovici:motorola:lmt324dopt
https://datasheet.octopart.com/LMT324N-Motorola-datasheet-27907009.pdf
https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/download/31312/TOSHIBA/TA75902P.html
The Motorola LMT, MCT, SCT series existed between 1993 and 1999 before it was discontinued as given in the following OnSemi PCNs.
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/docs/pcn/4323.pdf
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/docs/pcn/10062.pdf
The LMT324 was basically unpublicised (not mentioned in databooks) and I wondered what the difference was between it and a normal Motorola LM324.
I did notice that Motorola did introduce the ESD protected version of the LM324 in 1993 so I though this was just the old version (without ESD protection) rebadged. But on seeing Antoine's die shot and following thru I found it was a Toshiba part rebadged.
Motorola 1993 Linear Interface ICs databook
http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/_dataBooks/1993_Motorola_Linear_Interface_ICs_Vol_1.pdf
I'm guessing all the LMT, MCT, SCT series is really rebadged Toshiba ICs but I haven't confirmed that.
The analysis of the above is in depth at the following link.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubleshooting-hardware-devices-and-electronics-theory/general-electronics-technical-discussion/4175-difference-between-lm-and-lmt-op-amps-and-comparators
Cheers
Andy
Andy B:
Here's a link to a Chip Databook for Motorola from 1976 which you may find useful:
Motorola Semiconductor Data Library - Chips - Volume 8
https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_motoroladauctorDataLibraryVol8Chips_17508458
It contains all the wafer/dies that Motorola was offering at the time including discretes (transistors, diodes, etc), logic ICs, and linear ICs.
It includes low resolution pictures of many of these and hence is a good reference.
It includes the first Motorola versions of the LM124/224/324 and LM158/258/358 and the LM2902, LM2904. At the time these were prefixed with "M" for Motorola" (MLM324, MLM358, MLM2902, MLM2904).
Datasheets for the MLM versions are in the following databook:
Motorola Semiconductor Data Library -Linear Integrated Circuits - Volume 6
https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_motoroladaSemiconductorDataLibraryVolume6SeriesBLi_60467046
The chip versions of the integrated circuits had additional prefixes.
For example :
IC package form MLM324, MC3404
Straight chip form MLMC324, MCC3303
Flip chip form: MLMCF324, MCCF3303
Some die shots from this book:
MLMC324
---
MCC3303: From page 5-31. Has same common bias circuit as MLMC324 (between pin 11 and pin 4)
---
MLM2902: Automotive version of LM324. This has quite a different die layout and common bias layout than MLM324
--
Seems there was no "Chip" databook published later than 1976.
Later on Motorola changed the chip prefix to "W"
For example:
LMW324
OnSemi published PCN 10107 in 2000 saying the wafer/chip variations were being discontinued.
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/docs/pcn/10107.pdf
However in 2004 PCN 13364 mentioned they were still being made so PCN 10107 was probably amended.
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/docs/pcn/13364.pdf
Cheers
Andy
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