Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
Oscilloscope ASIC Kickstarter instead of Open scope.
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OwO:

--- Quote from: nctnico on January 14, 2020, 12:07:50 pm ---It is not about cost. Developing oscilloscope software is far beyond hobbyist level. I estimate it will take a few experienced software engineers 3000 to 5000 hours to get a reasonable basic oscilloscope firmware done. So basically it will take a US $500k Kickstarter campaign to get somewhere. IMHO the idea that the software development for such a huge project like oscilloscope firmware can be done for free is wrong. If you look at open source projects then you'll see most of the contributions are made by companies.

--- End quote ---

Don't know where you pulled those numbers from. I'm sure I can get it done in 3 months, let's say 5 months conservative estimate. 5 months * 20 workdays per month * 8 hours per day = 800 hours. 800*$40 = $32000. That's not a very big investment for something that could potentially pay back tens of times, even if it's considered a high risk investment. I would not even go to crowdfunding.

EDIT: that's if you pay someone to work on it (with the high overhead of officially employing someone). If it was one person doing it it would be more reasonable to account salary as $3000/month or similar, since that's closer to take-home pay at work. $3000 * 5 = $15000, which is a tiny investment.
nctnico:

--- Quote from: OwO on January 14, 2020, 12:22:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 14, 2020, 12:07:50 pm ---It is not about cost. Developing oscilloscope software is far beyond hobbyist level. I estimate it will take a few experienced software engineers 3000 to 5000 hours to get a reasonable basic oscilloscope firmware done. So basically it will take a US $500k Kickstarter campaign to get somewhere. IMHO the idea that the software development for such a huge project like oscilloscope firmware can be done for free is wrong. If you look at open source projects then you'll see most of the contributions are made by companies.

--- End quote ---

Don't know where you pulled those numbers from. I'm sure I can get it done in 3 months, let's say 5 months conservative estimate. 5 months * 20 workdays per month * 8 hours per day = 800 hours. 800*$40 = $32000. That's not a very big investment for something that could potentially pay back tens of times, even if it's considered a high risk investment. I would not even go to crowdfunding.

--- End quote ---
Utter nonsense. I'm sorry but you are severely under estimating the amount of work it takes. I have already worked on a USB oscilloscope (FPGA + host software) well over a decade ago and it really takes a lot more effort then you'd think at first sight.

Getting a signal on a screen is not difficult. But making it tie-in with math, reference traces, digital traces, having multiple acquisition methods, rendering traces (persistance, color grading), etc, etc, is what makes things very complicated. And all traces need to be time aligned as well. The oscilloscope manufacturers usually don't get it right the first time.


--- Quote from: OwO on January 14, 2020, 12:15:13 pm ---The hardware, FPGA firmware, and software must all be designed together because they are tightly inter-related.

--- End quote ---
No. Look at all the oscilloscope manufacturers. They have a universal software stack which they can tailor to specific hardware. If you are going to develop the software for a very specific target it will become obsolete very quick.

--- Quote --- You can not design it from a software perspective and then "accelerate" the slow parts later.

--- End quote ---
That is not what I wrote. I wrote 'develop the software + FPGA first by using FPGA development boards and then start to think about specific hardware'. In the end the hardware is the AFE, ADC, FPGA (and SoC) and some memory. You can make the hardware as cheap or expensive as you want if the software side (including FPGA firmware) is flexible enough.
OwO:
I took on the entirety of the NanoVNA V2 contract and did the hardware design, PCB layout, firmware, custom PC software (not based on anything existing) in 3 months from scratch. Everything was already ready in December and now the wait is on the customer to manufacture and sell it ;)

For the oscope I already have the base designs for Zynq + DDR3, adding a ADC is not hard and I also have a big library of VHDL modules (USB interfacing etc is already worked out). Cross platform PC software with custom plotting widgets is also something I already have experience in, and lots of code can be reused. 5 months is a highly inflated estimate. 3 months is the center estimate.

EDIT: getting traces aligned, already done that. A while ago for fun I wrote a web SDR interface with an oscilloscope plot, which is completely rendered in the FPGA. There was nothing especially hard about keeping several traces in sync.
Mechatrommer:

--- Quote from: nctnico on January 14, 2020, 12:07:50 pm ---Developing oscilloscope software is far beyond hobbyist level. I estimate it will take a few experienced software engineers 3000 to 5000 hours to get a reasonable basic oscilloscope firmware done. So basically it will take a US $500k Kickstarter campaign to get somewhere. IMHO the idea that the software development for such a huge project like oscilloscope firmware can be done for free is wrong. If you look at open source projects then you'll see most of the contributions are made by companies.

--- End quote ---
you definitely a HW guy ;D
nctnico:

--- Quote from: Mechatrommer on January 14, 2020, 12:53:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 14, 2020, 12:07:50 pm ---Developing oscilloscope software is far beyond hobbyist level. I estimate it will take a few experienced software engineers 3000 to 5000 hours to get a reasonable basic oscilloscope firmware done. So basically it will take a US $500k Kickstarter campaign to get somewhere. IMHO the idea that the software development for such a huge project like oscilloscope firmware can be done for free is wrong. If you look at open source projects then you'll see most of the contributions are made by companies.

--- End quote ---
you definitely a HW guy ;D

--- End quote ---
No. I have a lot of experience with software projects; I'm one of the very few who can give realistic estimations of how much effort goes into a software project and how long it will take to finish. Perhaps some people have different views on the target but when I think about a minimal oscilloscope then it should be at the functional level of the Rigol DS1000Z / Siglent SDS1000X / GW Instek GDS1000B/2000E or MicSig TO1000 series.
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