Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff

Oscilloscope ASIC Kickstarter instead of Open scope.

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Mechatrommer:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on January 13, 2020, 10:34:13 am ---I've unlocked this thread because I think it's hugely interesting, please play nice.

--- End quote ---
and i think you are wise in doing so ;D its not nice when mod can reply without letting the defendent draw their opinion. as someone said everybody has a right to their own opinion... i dont care if this thread is locked or not (i have no slight knowledge in ASIC) but it keeps popping out with admin's replies made me WTH. btw i think one of OP's main point is this...


--- Quote from: excitedbox on January 09, 2020, 05:59:28 am ---...use the same chip in a $450 scope as their $45k scope.

--- End quote ---

but imho, it will take someone with more knowledge in this area to make a start. simply saying "hey come on lets make this!" thread will not go anywhere. when someone starts with something usefull, the rest will join in. maybe for the start, doing in FPGA maybe? ASIC is too much of a take, as many others mentioned about the cost etc etc.. but as i said, i dont really care much its not my league, i already got a decent high end scope from used market. so if anything i have to say... lets scour the feabay for this kind of gems... ymmv. peace no war carry on gais.

SiliconWizard:
Yup yup yup. Wise thing obviously would be to start with a prototype design with off-the-shelf parts (ADCs, FPGA, etc.) Once there's something working, there can be a subsequent phase of trying to simplify it as much as possible. Then once it's there, going to an ASIC (with all the pitfalls we talked about) could be considered. But going for it right from the start would be a mistake, and as Dave mentioned, would make the crowdfunding campaign hard anyway, as such an ambitious goal without any prototype to show? Not gonna work.


ogden:

--- Quote from: aheid on January 13, 2020, 12:18:33 pm ---For reference, the ADC used in the Siglent SDS-1104x (it uses one per pair of channels) is, AFAIK, the HMCAD1511. The per-channel VGA is AD8370 and per-channel ADC driver is ADA4932-1. For two channels, you're looking at about $70 just between those parts.

--- End quote ---
Right. Obviously much better idea than scope ASIC is ADC Kickstarter project :-DD

Mechatrommer:

--- Quote from: aheid on January 13, 2020, 12:18:33 pm ---For reference, the ADC used in the Siglent SDS-1104x (it uses one per pair of channels) is, AFAIK, the HMCAD1511. The per-channel VGA is AD8370 and per-channel ADC driver is ADA4932-1. For two channels, you're looking at about $70 just between those parts.

--- End quote ---
one maybe can get cheaper 50% discount at best by buying in say 1000pcs qty, but $35K? only for that? maybe we are looking at $100K (if using FPGA uneducated guess) excluding headache to find and deal with assembler and mold maker (enclosure) its time for a new brand name company, maybe Riglent? or Siglol? or more precisely... SickLoL.. jk..


--- Quote from: blueskull on January 13, 2020, 12:58:23 pm ---...you can get tens of GHz of BW using sampling scope technology, or massive array of 1Gsps ADCs to achieve realtime. This is the secret sauce part of mainstream players.

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lets forget sampling scope which can be done with KSps or MSps ADC at tens of GHz BW, its different beast people have done it at cheap. but when you said mainstream players are using massive array of ADCs? i dont think so. i believe its another custom ASIC in one package, maybe massive array they are, but they are in one package, and in one IC... (pictured below, unluckily blocked by a heatsink)


--- Quote from: blueskull on January 13, 2020, 12:58:23 pm ---4. Equally important is analog frontend. That's the difference between a good scope and a cheap scope. With the same ADC, an R&S scope is quieter than a Rigol, here's the difference....
Thus, I recommend to start from the easy part, AFE, then S/H. Leave the professional people do the digital stuff, and they will trickle down from consumer stuff quickly and cheaply.

--- End quote ---
if you refer to this thread, Lecroy DDA-5005 DSO Teardown AFE for high end (50 ohm) scope is quite simple, i guess anyone can do with a free EM simulator and proper PCB materials... but once the signal goes into the ADC/DSP/ASIC/whatever it is, thats where the massive array of money is... there are few of them, from ADC/AFE to DSP/ASIC to RAM down the line, those the unobtaniums...



ps: i once tried to figure out the possibility of diy high sampling rate DSO, 10x whats the venerable DS1054Z can, using their brilliant idea of interleaving slower ADCs. the first study is to look at ADC cost in digikey, luckily that alone made me teared the idea into pieces without further wasting my time.... yeah agreed, let the man do their job.. let me tinker with arduino...

OwO:

--- Quote from: Mechatrommer on January 13, 2020, 02:25:15 pm ---the first study is to look at ADC cost in digikey,

--- End quote ---
That's where the mistake is. I know for a fact from working with a startup that FPGA prices at distributors are typically over 10x what you get direct from Xilinx at even small batch quantities, and ADCs may be similar.

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