Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
Oscilloscope ASIC Kickstarter instead of Open scope.
excitedbox:
We keep seeing open source oscilloscope projects for several reasons. One reason is features that the big players are not providing such as good firmware. Lets face it though these open source projects are no better.
The big reason in my opinion is price though. Scopes and test equipment cost insane amounts of money. Which is why these open source scopes will never compete with the main players. In the last few years Rigol, Tektronix, Keysight, and Agilent have all spun their own Asics. In an article last year Keysight claimed that it brings the cost down to a point where they use the same chip in a $450 scope as their $45k scope.
Why is there no purpose built Oscilloscope SOC on the market? It seems like such a no brainer that since we all need scopes that that is one of the chips that is desperately needed. Over the last few years the cost of producing a custom chip design have come down dramatically. I have done some looking and it is much cheaper than what is wasted on these multi million dollar kickstarters that produce the Solar dehumidifier or graphene super heater that breaks physics. The NRE for a custom ASIC would be about 500k-1 million (I have seen much cheaper but lets be realistic :-DD) but that is quickly recovered because the production cost would go down so dramatically after. If everyone that has bought one of the $700 Open Scopes or $650 RedPapaya etc. put even 1/3 of that money into kickstarter they could have a scope that performs on the level of a multi thousand dollar scope for the same price.
I propose a 2 prong solution. A fabless company/foundation to produce the chip and sell it in addition to offering the design at a very low licensing fee and a base design for free such as what arm does with their IP. The collected licensing fees can then be used to fund development of firmware development. The free design would allow anyone to benefit from it not just big companies with huge wallets.
The chip should be modular in design so it can be cut down for entry level, mid level designs. It should be adaptable for use in multiple test instruments to allow MSO, MDO, DSO all to use the same SOC. This way instruments no longer need to use expensive fpga chips which are only suited to the task because of their adaptability. It will cut down a lot of the development cost for the firmware as well, while also allowing anyone to modify or extend the firmware.
The dominant players in the industry have been selling us hardware and then charging us again to use it, with crazy expensive license fees for faster bandwidth or a signal generator, etc. that is already in the scope. Why should a $1k scope cost over $4k if you want all the features unlocked. They have been nickle and dimeing us worse than Apple.
They are holding back innovation by keeping the test equipment out of the reach of students, researchers, small companies, and individuals. We need to put a stop to it.
I think the first step would be to Form and Register a foundation or company to make something official. Then look for people with experience who would be willing to donate some time or work with the promise of getting paid at a later date. Then a more solid plan than my ramblings needs to be formulated which can be presented to companies who may invest into this endeavor so they can use the chip once complete. Once we generate some interest we can hammer down the specs for the design. During that time the rest of the team can develop a web presence and generate more interest around the project. When we get to a place where we are confident we can raise the money and have a design that fits enough peoples needs we can move to the funding stage. During that stage the design should be finished so that once the goal is reached we can do a first tape out.
Obviously this plan needs work and I have nowhere near the experience to lead a project like this but I would be happy to donate my time and skills in any way possible. At the very least I can make a website and make marketing materials in German and English. If it gets to a point where we meet with manufacturers I would also be able to meet with German manufacturers to push the project.
I have made a discord server for anyone interested in helping move this along. OScopeAsic is the server name. https://discord.gg/DVmNC3
ali_asadzadeh:
That's a good plan, If you manage to find some donation that could cover 50% of my prices, I have expertise in the VHDL and PCB design,and I can help and can donate the other 50% myself. ;)
ataradov:
"500k-1 million" is not realistic, it is way-way optimistic. It would be somewhat realistic for a run of the mill digital IC, like a very simple MCU. It is nowhere close to analog ASIC.
And if you are starting from a complete scratch, then this sum will just cover tools and libraries.
daqq:
While a noble cause, I'm thinking that you are severely underestimating the cost of developing a usable IC (according to your specification it is a one-size-fits-all-and-everything) and overestimating the demand for a product with such an IC.
To the best of my knowledge, the whole semiconductor industry is a patent minefield, everyone suing everyone enthusiastically.
--- Quote ---If everyone that has bought one of the $700 Open Scopes or $650 RedPapaya etc. put even 1/3 of that money into kickstarter they could have a scope that performs on the level of a multi thousand dollar scope for the same price.
--- End quote ---
A third of 700 USD is 230 USD. That's not a lot of money to build anything for that's not built in REALLY massive volumes.
aheid:
"Why is there no purpose built Oscilloscope SOC on the market? "
Maybe that's a hint. More often than not there's a reason for a gap in the market, and it ain't a missed opportunity.
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