Poll

How about creating a GitHub repository for this?

Not really interested
7 (70%)
Would like to take a peek at one
2 (20%)
Would like to use the concept, but mostly create stuff myself
1 (10%)
Would like to duplicate the modules as they are
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: Playable electronic modules - modules in action  (Read 9857 times)

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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Did some poking on 20x40 pins, thus 8000  :-+ to check how many where useless, against how many are just LQ. About 35 pins where without contacts.

They where 3,30 € in total. Don’t know how much the HQ ones should cost, but I will check them out.

I’m thinking of buying less AliExpress stuff. But with Mouser it can sometimes be a bit overwhelming how many there’s to choose from. And not only that, one needs to spend 50€ at once to get free shipment. That’s not to hard  ^-^, but then to forget a part is unpleasant. So I keep delaying ordering stuff over there.

However having to wait a month on crap turned pins is not pleasant either  ;).

20 years ago local electronic part stores where quite common in the Netherlands, but now only larger cities have them. For me not handy.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 10:19:36 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Re: Playable electronic modules - revising - safer/magnetic
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2019, 10:27:18 pm »
Yes sure, the LED will follow the state of the inverter input, just not the output (I guess it depends where you position them as to how much sense it makes).
I wasn’t clear on that one. The inverter will probably drive a 2N7000 to drive the led. Thus it should follow the output. I wouldn’t like to loose 10mA of driving capacity of the inverter.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 10:37:45 am by HendriXML »
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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If you've got white space on the label, put something useful on it. Such as the truth table for the operation. Or perhaps the alternate representation for the same gate. (e.g. a NAND gate is the same thing as an OR gate with inverted inputs)
I’ve been thinking about that to, it’s hard to resist. But having a truth table always in view, might delay the growth of operational knowledge.

I will exploit the power of the printed stickers later on!

For adults it easy to use abstract symbols, for kids that is something they need develop.

In the (playfull) assignments / puzzles I’ll put a few in that are about combing gates to create elementary ones. Comming to the conclusion that multiple NAND’s (with use of GND) can be used create all others.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 11:29:28 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline Mortymore

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Let me add another of my 2cents

Don't loose focus.
There's been a lot of interesting input given here, but if your "contraption" is intended for kids, keep it simple.
Adding to much information or a big board... may be overwhelming for kids (starters) and demotivating.

Keep your tiles simple. But, adding to that I suggest that you write a small book with simple instructions and experiments, with schematics, some introduction to functions. On some, instigate the curiosity proposing alternate ways to achieve the same results, or add a slight complexity to it, for instance, making a mix with 2 previous experiences or something.

The building blocks should be simple and easy to read and understand, because that will be easier to visual memory, to build the circuit and to debug if necessary.
The extra information should be provided in the book, and increased as necessary.

Keep up the good work  :-+

Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Thanks,
I’m weighing every option carefully, so any feedback is fine.

For instance I won’t make the dual function module but split it. The modules are not short circuit safe, so having a ground next to an input is to risky. Having to warn for it will influence the friendliness perception of the modules.

Will also check the effect of having (subtle) visual information on the connection type will do.
Stuff to think about would be:
  • input or output
  • digital or analog
  • active, passive, power

The reason for this is to lessen the risk of invalid connections when non digital modules arise. (Or connecting two outputs together)

Will also use the LQ pinheaders. Thus no more deadbug style, but normal bottom PCB soldering, but without leads/pins sticking through. Will add some foam to the top of the IC to have some upward pressure from the enclosure bottom.

It is always nice to target pro level results, but it can also mean the costs will rise too much.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 12:39:37 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Did some checking but even simple connection suggestions are an abstraction. Color coding of the module traces could work, but has disadvantages. Having dashed lines looks alright but dashed lines should be used for other purposes.

The best option IMO would be to use different colors of pinheaders just to show whether the input is digital, analog or passive. The plastic part of the pin header can be replaced without soldering so that can even be done afterwards. But for now I leave it as it is: digital is black  :-+
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Maybe I use this indication (XOR gate example) that the signals are digital.
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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I think Lego lost the patent cases on their brick format. Otherwise I don’t think you even can be sued for making personal stuff. Mass producing is a different story  ;). Or using their logo.

I guess it even is ok to repaint a Rembrandt, just don’t sell it as a Rembrandt one.

So DIY stuff seems ok to me.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 04:49:55 pm by HendriXML »
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Online nctnico

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In the Netherlands you can buy these brick-like electronics / electricity experimenting sets called 'Spektro':
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Yes, there are plenty of electronics kits out there. (We call those ones Snap-Circuits here by Elenco). There's also tons of "springboard" kits out there, some of which include breadboards and even one with a microprocessor. There's also one's with magnets, ones with clip together modules, and all kinds of stuff.

There is a website with a list of every electronics building toy ever made, but I'll have to find it. (NOTE: IDK how many of them will still be in production).

HERE: http://www.zpag.net/Electroniques/Kit/Electronic_Kit.htm
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 06:17:04 pm by Cyberdragon »
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Online nctnico

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Not all. I'm missing the kits from Philips (which I still have -I think-) on the list.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Not all. I'm missing the kits from Philips (which I still have -I think-) on the list.
I think I had the B-variant. 2 transistors!!
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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New version of the stickers. With the low/high level module.
If there's enough room there will be a LED in each high rectangle.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 09:59:16 pm by HendriXML »
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Online nctnico

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Not all. I'm missing the kits from Philips (which I still have -I think-) on the list.
I think I had the B-variant. 2 transistors!!
I used to have the full set (until D IIRC) but I'm not sure whether I took everything with me when I moved out of my parent's house.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Not all. I'm missing the kits from Philips (which I still have -I think-) on the list.
I think I had the B-variant. 2 transistors!!
I used to have the full set (until D IIRC) but I'm not sure whether I took everything with me when I moved out of my parent's house.
That was a really well thought out system, with the schematics under the spring contacts and all. Even with that I found it quite challenging  :-[.
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Online nctnico

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I ended up making my own modules for it.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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I ended up making my own modules for it.
Found a site with some of those kits. I can’t really find the one I had.
http://www.sjelab.nl/sjelab.htm

http://www.rrd.demon.nl/Philips%20experimenteerdozen/Philips%20experimenteerdozen.htm

It think my one box was a bit limiting. But that makes it also easy to create stuff with more possibilities for my offspring  :-+ While doing a quick comparison, I think Phillips kits where more component based, instead of module based. But in the end to what extend things can be combined does matter. With modules that could be less. (I’ll throw in a Arduino then :phew:) Interacting with Lego to make mechatronic projects is important for long term playability. Thus that is one of the goals I’ll keep in mind.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 11:02:19 am by HendriXML »
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Playable electronic modules - granularity / permutations
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2019, 03:01:35 pm »
Lego already has two robotics kits available.
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Re: Playable electronic modules - granularity / permutations
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2019, 04:38:12 pm »
Lego already has two robotics kits available.
I know, and they’re nice but not cheap. DIY can go well beyond of what they’re offering. Certainly not because it’s better, but because it does not need to be as good. With personal use, one can get away with “ugly” solutions. I tend to make a lot and different kinds of them if it becomes a success.
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Re: Playable electronic modules - debouncing switches
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2019, 07:41:49 pm »
The high/low module will be controlled with 2 types of switches. One push button and one toggle switch, wired to a female Dupont connector as shown on the photo.

I measured the bouncing (MeasureA) to get an idea. Then I tested with a 100nF capacitor RC circuit (MeasureB). Because this still showed bouncing, so I went to 1uF, the next one I had on stock.

The graphs are shown. Instead of a normal inverter, the switches will drive a Schmitt-trigger inverter (SN74HC14).

Later on I will do some testing with the SN74HC14 to see how much the delays will be in practice.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 09:43:16 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Re: Playable electronic modules - debouncing switches
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2019, 08:15:23 pm »
The full schematic is below. This is not complex, but still quite a task to realise it on a 5x7cm perf board.  :-\
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 08:42:10 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline Nusa

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Re: Playable electronic modules - debouncing switches
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2019, 12:35:02 am »
From the cost and space point of view, you could replace all of that with a microcontroller that software debounced the inputs, and gave stable logic outputs and lamp outputs. It also means you could implement timed pulse generator outputs trivially, if you want them.

From the teaching point of view, you could use S-R flip-flops to debounce instead, using either SPDT switches or two SPST buttons (one for set, one for reset). You could show the logic involved on the label, either as a flip-flop box or equivalent logic using gates.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 12:37:55 am by Nusa »
 

Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Re: Playable electronic modules - debouncing switches
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2019, 01:47:05 am »
From the cost and space point of view, you could replace all of that with a microcontroller that software debounced the inputs, and gave stable logic outputs and lamp outputs. It also means you could implement timed pulse generator outputs trivially, if you want them.

From the teaching point of view, you could use S-R flip-flops to debounce instead, using either SPDT switches or two SPST buttons (one for set, one for reset). You could show the logic involved on the label, either as a flip-flop box or equivalent logic using gates.
Thanks, S-R flip-flops will certainly exposed as a module as well. That’s is also one benefit of making these modules for my son, I’m familiarizing with the components myself as well. I’ve the components “on stock” so there’s not really (much) added costs. But space might be an issue, all the stuff needs to be compact in x/y direction but also z.

I’ve thought about showing the internal logic. Hence the previous idea of making a dual function module. (Switch/not gate). But this is one of the modules where it al starts, so I keep this one simple.

I haven’t dived in the way software debouncing works, but I prefer this module to be reliable. If this module for instance drives a counter, it would be crap if it added 4 at a time.
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Offline amy

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Re: Playable electronic modules - debouncing switches
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2019, 10:12:36 am »
I'd d like to know what this module is designed for.How do children play?You're amazing.No one is going to make me a video game by hand.Look forward to seeing the full work in the future :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
 

Offline HendriXMLTopic starter

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Re: Playable electronic modules - debouncing switches
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2019, 12:08:35 pm »
Welcome to the EEVblog forum and thanks for the compliment!
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