Electronics > Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
Professional Prototyping Hardware Defined (Breadboard, Jumpers, low R stuff)
Mecanix:
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 09:35:10 am ---I am now working at a technical training center, where dozens of apprentices (almost entirely teenagers) come for classes each year. Breadboards are essential to lashing together the basic circuits used to learn electronics theory.
--- End quote ---
Thanks. Agree with your previous comment about being a tool of paramount importance for testing/simulating circuits in real-life (aka learning) more than being a professional tool to achieve bench-top prototypes. The former being partly the reason I am looking forward getting a breadboard kit although I wound't say no to a platform where I can also sign-off circuit functionalities before sending out gerbers.
Backing up a bit; I'd like to remind everyone that the frustration comes from being unable to find the right equipment/construction commercially despite a market being flooded with what appears to be "breadboard kits" sold by so called 'experts' - they are NOT, not even close. Talking about the incredibly high impedance, mechanical inconsistencies (contacts?), weak materials in their constructions and excessive low quality in general. Its as if our market players only wants to accommodate the blinky led hobbyist. Its just embarrassing that we do not have high-end (tested?) hardware available, if you ask me...
Disclaimer: I am by no means an electrical "Professional"/engineer, I'm a licensed mechanical engineer and entrepreneur in his early years, taken onto EE since nearly 12 months now and still tooling-up. I am officially pissed for having wasted time looking for something that I was convinced existed but didn't, and therefore passing all of that frustration back to "you all" :box:
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: Mecanix on July 22, 2020, 01:12:20 pm ---I am officially pissed for having wasted time looking for something that I was convinced existed but didn't, and therefore passing all of that frustration back to "you all" :box:
--- End quote ---
A reasonable reaction :(
Don't worry about passing it back to us; we can deal with it. I regard this "frustration" as light relief :)
tooki:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 11:56:49 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 11:32:09 am ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on July 22, 2020, 11:18:37 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 11:09:30 am ---Being pro-breadboard does NOT mean being anti-soldering!!
--- End quote ---
Of course not, that would be just ridiculous, no one's saying that.
--- End quote ---
You have both insinuated this multiple times in this thread alone.
--- End quote ---
Saying "all crows are black birds" does not insinuate that "all black birds are crows".
--- End quote ---
Of course not. But you’ve both retorted about how important you think soldering is, which is the corollary of assuming I don’t think soldering is important.
Either way, I think it’s the mark of a bad engineer to bullheadedly dismiss something just because it’s not relevant for you.
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 11:46:28 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 11:00:19 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 10:36:19 am ---
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 09:53:56 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 09:35:10 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 09:27:30 am ---In that context, I don't see any significant difference between experimenting and prototyping.
--- End quote ---
Then it’s been far too long since you were a beginner.
--- End quote ---
Not really. I've been a beginner since the 60s - because I am always doing new things that are outside my previous experience.
--- End quote ---
Being a lifelong learner (which is a good thing) does NOT make you a beginner!! |O
Over the years, you’ve accumulated TONS of knowledge that helps you understand the new things, and eliminate pitfalls that a beginner won’t know about. Experience solidifies the foundational knowledge that is then applicable to new challenges. A beginner simply doesn’t have those, and has to be allowed to accrue it.
--- End quote ---
I'll disagree. I started before university with audio and digital systems. After that I've made things using low-noise analogue, optical, LANs, RLANs, semi-custom, FPGA, hard-realtime software, cell system monitoring, soft realtime high availability servers, web shops and fulfillment, and I'm sure other things.
In none of those was I able to go on a course to learn them, since they were all too new. Instead it was reading the literature, working things out from first principles, and trial and error. In that sense I've always been a beginner - but I do try to apply my experience from a previous field (e.g. solderless breadboards) to a new field.
Recently I've started playing with RF/microwave, and there is relatively little in common with those technologies with my previous experience. Yes, I am a beginner at RF, and enjoying it.
SMD components are another such new technology; to my surprise I now prefer them.
--- End quote ---
None of that makes you a beginner at electronics!! Those are all specialities. But the fundamentals apply equally. Ohm’s law isn’t different in one area of electronics than another.
Seriously, dude. You. Are. Not. A. Beginner. Pretending you are is just arrogant.
--- End quote ---
No, it is a humble recognition of my lack of knowledge of this topic. I don't think you realise how different RF microwave is to the other stuff I mentioned.
For example, please define the relationships between signals at the entry/exit ports on these PCBs. The last one is especially subtle :) Assume there is a groundplane on the other side of the board. (Ohm's law doesn't even start to apply!)
--- End quote ---
Again, you [series of expletives not suitable for delicate ears]: being new to a specific specialization does NOT make you a beginner at the field overall!!! |O |O |O
And please, drop the “humble” BS: nothing about your posts here has been even distantly humble. Nothing but haughty proclamations.
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 05:15:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 11:56:49 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 11:32:09 am ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on July 22, 2020, 11:18:37 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 11:09:30 am ---Being pro-breadboard does NOT mean being anti-soldering!!
--- End quote ---
Of course not, that would be just ridiculous, no one's saying that.
--- End quote ---
You have both insinuated this multiple times in this thread alone.
--- End quote ---
Saying "all crows are black birds" does not insinuate that "all black birds are crows".
--- End quote ---
Of course not. But you’ve both retorted about how important you think soldering is, which is the corollary of assuming I don’t think soldering is important.
--- End quote ---
Sigh. QED, I believe.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 11:46:28 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 11:00:19 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 10:36:19 am ---
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 09:53:56 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 22, 2020, 09:35:10 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 09:27:30 am ---In that context, I don't see any significant difference between experimenting and prototyping.
--- End quote ---
Then it’s been far too long since you were a beginner.
--- End quote ---
Not really. I've been a beginner since the 60s - because I am always doing new things that are outside my previous experience.
--- End quote ---
Being a lifelong learner (which is a good thing) does NOT make you a beginner!! |O
Over the years, you’ve accumulated TONS of knowledge that helps you understand the new things, and eliminate pitfalls that a beginner won’t know about. Experience solidifies the foundational knowledge that is then applicable to new challenges. A beginner simply doesn’t have those, and has to be allowed to accrue it.
--- End quote ---
I'll disagree. I started before university with audio and digital systems. After that I've made things using low-noise analogue, optical, LANs, RLANs, semi-custom, FPGA, hard-realtime software, cell system monitoring, soft realtime high availability servers, web shops and fulfillment, and I'm sure other things.
In none of those was I able to go on a course to learn them, since they were all too new. Instead it was reading the literature, working things out from first principles, and trial and error. In that sense I've always been a beginner - but I do try to apply my experience from a previous field (e.g. solderless breadboards) to a new field.
Recently I've started playing with RF/microwave, and there is relatively little in common with those technologies with my previous experience. Yes, I am a beginner at RF, and enjoying it.
SMD components are another such new technology; to my surprise I now prefer them.
--- End quote ---
None of that makes you a beginner at electronics!! Those are all specialities. But the fundamentals apply equally. Ohm’s law isn’t different in one area of electronics than another.
Seriously, dude. You. Are. Not. A. Beginner. Pretending you are is just arrogant.
--- End quote ---
No, it is a humble recognition of my lack of knowledge of this topic. I don't think you realise how different RF microwave is to the other stuff I mentioned.
For example, please define the relationships between signals at the entry/exit ports on these PCBs. The last one is especially subtle :) Assume there is a groundplane on the other side of the board. (Ohm's law doesn't even start to apply!)
--- End quote ---
Again, you [series of expletives not suitable for delicate ears]: being new to a specific specialization does NOT make you a beginner at the field overall!!! |O |O |O
--- End quote ---
That depends on where you draw the lines between "fields".
IMNSHO RF is very different. There are many concepts and specifications and tools that are basic in RF but which have no place (or even counterpart) in, say, audio analogue or digital logic or software - and vice versa.
Trivial examples off the top of my head: what are the spice models representing the copper traces in the pictures above? For that matter, what do those components even do? What do S21 and IP3 define? When and why would you us a harmonic balance simulator?
--- Quote ---And please, drop the “humble” BS: nothing about your posts here has been even distantly humble. Nothing but haughty proclamations.
--- End quote ---
Oh, I am humble where I recognise areas where I know little - such as RF.
Now, how does ohm's law relate to those components pictured? (Remember you wrote "But the fundamentals apply equally. Ohm’s law isn’t different in one area of electronics than another")
TheUnnamedNewbie:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 22, 2020, 06:06:48 pm ---
Now, how does ohm's law relate to those components pictured? (Remember you wrote "But the fundamentals apply equally. Ohm’s law isn’t different in one area of electronics than another")
--- End quote ---
I mean, technically speaking, Ohm's law is related to Maxwell's equations. It still applies to the currents and voltages flowing through those components, it's just that you really need to look at an infinitesimal length of the track (and then integrate) to not have issues with the wavelength nature of the signals.
But I'll let you two get on with your discussion >:D
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