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Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: coppercone2 on December 07, 2018, 10:31:30 am

Title: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: coppercone2 on December 07, 2018, 10:31:30 am
So I have a bunch of grabbers including the standard grabbers that are OK for a dip and the mini/micro grabbers that can do like a soic kinda.

Can you go any smaller ? I have both of these types:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1PCS-Tektronix-Tek-30V-IC-Grabber-Clip-Probe-Accessory-the-black-one-/322868241342 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1PCS-Tektronix-Tek-30V-IC-Grabber-Clip-Probe-Accessory-the-black-one-/322868241342)

Do smaller ones exist?

Also is there some thing that can go and clip into a small solder joints (I am thinking a special possibly threaded clamp kind of like Japanese "Vampliers" )
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: 0xdeadbeef on December 07, 2018, 10:35:36 am
Hirschmann KLEPS FP2B (very expensive)
https://www.reichelt.de/mini-clip-probe-tip-qfpic-clip-yellow-green-kleps-fp2b-gg-p106194.html?&trstct=lsbght_sldr::106195 (https://www.reichelt.de/mini-clip-probe-tip-qfpic-clip-yellow-green-kleps-fp2b-gg-p106194.html?&trstct=lsbght_sldr::106195)

Challenger Clip (more affordable)
https://www.calplus.de/testec-21083.html (https://www.calplus.de/testec-21083.html)
https://www.reichelt.de/challenger-clip-white-clip-6800-ws-p63460.html (https://www.reichelt.de/challenger-clip-white-clip-6800-ws-p63460.html)
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: Terry01 on December 07, 2018, 10:54:01 am
Some neat clips!  :)
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: coppercone2 on December 07, 2018, 10:55:13 am
I assume the pin pitch in those is the number shown in MM.

I am pretty sure those tek minigrabbers I got can do SOIC, which is 0.6, so those are not really an improvement other then build quality.

But, interestingly, panoma specifies the minigrabbers as being 1.27 pin pitch, so maybe if its specified to 0.6 officially it does better?
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: 0xdeadbeef on December 07, 2018, 11:05:07 am
The Hirschmann clips have a 0.6mm diameter which should be much better than the black clips sold in that eBay offer. I'm not sure if there is something much smaller available.
(https://asset.conrad.com/media10/isa/160267/c1/-/de/129830_SZ_00_FB/krokodilklemmen-set-steckanschluss-064-mm-cat-i-gruen-gelb-sks-hirschmann-kleps-fp-2b.jpg?x=520&y=520)
Data sheet:
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/C170/KLEPS-FP-2B.pdf (https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/C170/KLEPS-FP-2B.pdf)
Both clip types are said to be usable for QFPIC pitches from 0.5mm till 0.8 mm.

Catalogue from  Electro PJP
http://www.electro-pjp.com/sites/default/files/catalogue_1.pdf (http://www.electro-pjp.com/sites/default/files/catalogue_1.pdf)
The "Challenger Clip" is named "6800" there. They also offer another type called "6606-080" which is meant for the same pitch but has a larger diameter (1.25mm)
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: Warhawk on December 07, 2018, 07:40:01 pm
Hmm, already excellent tips in this thread. I like the challenger clip. I'll give it a try.
I also suggest this for the lab:

https://www.reichelt.de/miniatur-pruefclip-smd-bauteile-0-64-mm-schwarz-micro-smd-clip-p106195.html (https://www.reichelt.de/miniatur-pruefclip-smd-bauteile-0-64-mm-schwarz-micro-smd-clip-p106195.html)

I use it all the time.
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 07, 2018, 08:59:45 pm
recently i bought used but original Tektronix grabbers for LA (2 on the left) thinking i may improve probing pitch, eek wrong its worst, so it seems the china hung low grabber is still my favourite even though i need to rebend the clipper tip from time to time due to cheap and thin metal tip. but that thin metal tip is nicer because lesser risk of shorting adjacent IC pins. the Tektronix one is thick and hard metal, but i'm guessing not suitable for small pitch probing. the middle one is grabber that came with Lecroy WL600 probe, i have no idea where to get them separately. the 2nd right is my currently used china hung low grabber and the right most one came with china transistor tester. the Hircmann brand is unreasonably expensive imo, with increasing number of probing nodes this can easily turn into blood sucking event, and i'm not sure i can improve anything by using it, say on 0.5mm pitch pins. i'd rather solder small extension wires (custom probing setup) or buy thousands of china hung low grabber and throw it away everyday. ymmv...
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on December 07, 2018, 09:41:02 pm
The Hirschmann clips have a 0.6mm diameter which should be much better than the black clips sold in that eBay offer. I'm not sure if there is something much smaller available.
(https://asset.conrad.com/media10/isa/160267/c1/-/de/129830_SZ_00_FB/krokodilklemmen-set-steckanschluss-064-mm-cat-i-gruen-gelb-sks-hirschmann-kleps-fp-2b.jpg?x=520&y=520)
Data sheet:
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/C170/KLEPS-FP-2B.pdf (https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/C170/KLEPS-FP-2B.pdf)
Both clip types are said to be usable for QFPIC pitches from 0.5mm till 0.8 mm.

Catalogue from  Electro PJP
http://www.electro-pjp.com/sites/default/files/catalogue_1.pdf (http://www.electro-pjp.com/sites/default/files/catalogue_1.pdf)
The "Challenger Clip" is named "6800" there. They also offer another type called "6606-080" which is meant for the same pitch but has a larger diameter (1.25mm)
These look similar to these Japanese Sunyahato ones - I bought some in Akihabara  a few years ago. OK but the tubes can split. I usually end up soldering wires on.
https://www.monotaro.sg/p/07330337/# (https://www.monotaro.sg/p/07330337/#)
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: ajb on December 08, 2018, 02:16:20 am
I asked about this a while ago: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-clipsgrabbers-for-fine-pitch-ics/msg1309185/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-clipsgrabbers-for-fine-pitch-ics/msg1309185/)

Mecano clips seemed to be the way to go, but I got distracted and never got around to chasing up a place to actually buy them.

Challenger Clip (more affordable)
https://www.calplus.de/testec-21083.html (https://www.calplus.de/testec-21083.html)
https://www.reichelt.de/challenger-clip-white-clip-6800-ws-p63460.html (https://www.reichelt.de/challenger-clip-white-clip-6800-ws-p63460.html)

Those are the same as the Pomona 742902, which I tested out in that other thread, they work quite well on 1.27mm SOIC, and can work on 0.65mm parts that have relatively narrow leads, but are hopeless for 0.65mm parts with what I would consider to be average width leads.
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: MarkL on December 08, 2018, 02:59:41 am
I have a set of the 0.6mm diameter yellow and greenish micro-grabbers made by Mechano, and they work well:

  http://www.mechano.co.jp/product.html (http://www.mechano.co.jp/product.html)

Much of the site is in Japanese, but they sell their products through Keysight, Tektronix, LeCroy, PMK, and probably others.  They have a grabber claimed to go to 13.5GHz (!).  I don't know about that, but it is tiny.

I bought a set of their FP-5 and FP-5L through Keysight.  The FP-5L has a long barrel which makes it easier to get into cramped areas.

Pomona looks like they also offer this style grabber (not the 72902).  They look nice, but I haven't tried them:

  https://www.pomonaelectronics.com/products/test-clips/micro-smd-grabber-test-clip-5-3-mm-ic-10-pcs (https://www.pomonaelectronics.com/products/test-clips/micro-smd-grabber-test-clip-5-3-mm-ic-10-pcs)
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: MatteoX on December 08, 2018, 05:01:05 am
If you want to probe 0.5mm PQFP/TQFP style packages I would recommend Keysight wedge style probes E2613A/E2614A/E2643A (3/8/16 pins respectively). They are also available for 0.65mm pitch.

https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000000655%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-E2613A/05-mm-wedge-probe-adapter-for-tqfp-and-pqfp?cc=US&lc=eng&lsrch=true&searchT=e2613a (https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000000655%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-E2613A/05-mm-wedge-probe-adapter-for-tqfp-and-pqfp?cc=US&lc=eng&lsrch=true&searchT=e2613a)

These probes slide between the pins.  I have used 3- and 8-pin version many times. They are very convenient especially if you need to probe several consecutive pins. They are not cheap (3-pin version is about $175, 8-pin is about $250) but if you need to probe 8 or 16 consecutive pins they are indispensable.
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: Jester on December 08, 2018, 06:56:58 am
I have two types for dense probing:

1) https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/chip-quik-inc/SMDFP-1B30/SMDFP-1B30-ND/2334389 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/chip-quik-inc/SMDFP-1B30/SMDFP-1B30-ND/2334389)
2) https://www.ebay.com/itm/FP-2C-10-0-5-0-3mm-MicroGripper-1POS/221511824312?hash=item33932233b8:g:qXUAAOSwDk5T28X0 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/FP-2C-10-0-5-0-3mm-MicroGripper-1POS/221511824312?hash=item33932233b8:g:qXUAAOSwDk5T28X0)

I have 20 of the 2nd style, would like to get more of the first style, the long probe comes in handy sometimes. Problem is they are expensive!
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: DaJMasta on December 08, 2018, 09:22:37 am
The price on those challenger clips is very appealing.... are there US distributors of them or suppliers that will ship to the US?
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: Doctorandus_P on December 11, 2018, 11:54:30 am
For reliable measurements on thin wires I tend to pre tinned ends of 0.2mm enameled wire to my measurement points. Solder the other end to some 0.1" header and clamp the header to the PCB, or glue it to the PCB with some hot snot, so you can still remove it if you want.

Had a look on the challenger clips. According to Reichelt they go down to 0.8mm, which is too wide for my 0.5mm pitch STm32F103.
A long time ago I found some Japanese high prcision mini grabbes. I believe they went down to 0.3mm but these were also very expensive.

This may also work reasonably wel for temporary measurement setups, and is easy to make yourself:
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: coppercone2 on December 11, 2018, 12:33:04 pm
i don't like that. Maybe if those probes are real heavy.
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: 0xdeadbeef on December 12, 2018, 05:48:34 am
According to Reichelt they go down to 0.8mm, which is too wide for my 0.5mm pitch STm32F103.
Nah. Reichelt says that the diameter is 0.8mm, but this is not the minimum pitch it can be used for.
Actually the official datasheet states a 0.45mm pitch as far as I can tell
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/D100/MS6800-12.pdf
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: ajb on December 12, 2018, 05:59:17 am
According to Reichelt they go down to 0.8mm, which is too wide for my 0.5mm pitch STm32F103.
Nah. Reichelt says that the diameter is 0.8mm, but this is not the minimum pitch it can be used for.
Actually the official datasheet states a 0.45mm pitch as far as I can tell
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/D100/MS6800-12.pdf (https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/D100/MS6800-12.pdf)

Those are the same as the Pomona 742902 clips, except for the much lower price.  I tried out the Pomona clips and have pictures here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-clipsgrabbers-for-fine-pitch-ics/msg1311399/#msg1311399).  They're okay for SOIC, they work okay for *some* 0.65mm TSSOPs, but are going to be hopeless for anything finer than that.  Most of the "minimum pitch"  claims on these clips are uselessly optimistic bordering on straight out made-up.
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: 0xdeadbeef on December 12, 2018, 06:07:36 am
It's one thing if they work for a certain pitch and another if they work for two, three or more pins next to each other. Obviously pins directly next to each other are much more problematic that single pins.
To measure several pins next to each other, indeed the "wedge" style probes are much better than single grabbers.
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: 0xdeadbeef on December 31, 2018, 03:00:10 am
So I ordered four "Challenger" clips at Reichelt for 2.26 € each. To my suprise I got four bags with 10 clips each.
I can't imagine that this is anything else but a mistake. Probably I just got 90€ worth of clips. They should last for a while.
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: Terry01 on December 31, 2018, 03:07:00 am
So I ordered four "Challenger" clips at Reichelt for 2.26 € each. To my suprise I got four bags with 10 clips each.
I can't imagine that this is anything else but a mistake. Probably I just got 90€ worth of clips. They should last for a while.

Nice 1!  :)
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: Warhawk on February 01, 2019, 10:17:54 pm
If you wanted to get rid of a few, I would be interested (shipping to Germany).
 :)
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: ebclr on February 02, 2019, 09:05:01 am
Something unusual


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TSSOP-MSOP-car-remote-control-key-chip-pin-SMD-DIP-chipIC-clip-clip-burn-folder/32535219524.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.49f85723vZl2vV (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TSSOP-MSOP-car-remote-control-key-chip-pin-SMD-DIP-chipIC-clip-clip-burn-folder/32535219524.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.49f85723vZl2vV)
Title: Re: really small SMD grabbers?
Post by: ajb on February 03, 2019, 09:46:56 am
Something unusual


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TSSOP-MSOP-car-remote-control-key-chip-pin-SMD-DIP-chipIC-clip-clip-burn-folder/32535219524.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.49f85723vZl2vV (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TSSOP-MSOP-car-remote-control-key-chip-pin-SMD-DIP-chipIC-clip-clip-burn-folder/32535219524.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.49f85723vZl2vV)

I have a set like that (found on eBay, and without the different colors).  They're good for SOIC, okay for TSSOP, but not ergonomic at all, because you have to push the connecting pin on the back to open the grabber.  It sort of takes two hands sometimes to be able to get them into position on a pin.